Author Topic: Kodály's Covert Clan  (Read 13082 times)

Pohjolas Daughter and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SymphonicAddict

  • Guest
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2018, 03:45:53 PM »
Thanks, helps me to re-discover it again. Always adored the Kodály of the Concerto for Orchestra, Theater Overture, Peacock, AllDances and much more - but found the symphony a bit trepid.

I hope it can grow on you  ;)

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 21463
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2018, 01:35:42 AM »
I've liked everything I've heard from Kodaly but actually have very little in my collection, Harry Janos on LP, Psalmus Hungaricus (on Chandos) and the Naxos CD with Peacock Variations etc) - oh dear - more temptation  ::))
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 01:39:47 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Christo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5486
  • ... an opening of those magic casements ...
  • Location: Netherlands
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2018, 07:54:15 AM »
temptation
Speaking about temptations, I always found his personal life intriguing: first marrying Emma, almost twice his age, and happily married for 48 years til her death at the age of 95; then, himself a 76-year-old, marrying the 19-year-old Sarolta Péczely who could have been his granddaughter. Together the span of two complete lifetimes, happily spent in music:
http://www.interlude.hk/front/two-hearts-one-soul-zoltan-kodaly-emma-gruber
… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 21463
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2018, 08:42:02 AM »
Speaking about temptations, I always found his personal life intriguing: first marrying Emma, almost twice his age, and happily married for 48 years til her death at the age of 95; then, himself a 76-year-old, marrying the 19-year-old Sarolta Péczely who could have been his granddaughter. Together the span of two complete lifetimes, happily spent in music:
http://www.interlude.hk/front/two-hearts-one-soul-zoltan-kodaly-emma-gruber


Very interesting. Didn't know any of that.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Ghost of Baron Scarpia

  • Guest
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2018, 09:09:03 AM »
I've yet to hear the Concerto for Orchestra or Symphony, but I should. I spent a time with a fascination with the Suite for Solo Cello which never converted to love for the work.

Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1492
  • Location: U.S.A.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Eric Dolphy, Persian music, Sorabji, Scriabin, Sex Pistols
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2021, 07:38:56 PM »
The recordings I am frequently listening to this year. Thinking about buying the disc of Concerto For Orchestra issued from Naxos as well.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 07:50:32 PM by Dry Brett Kavanaugh »

Offline Daverz

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6452
  • You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down!
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2021, 03:44:20 AM »
The last time I compared recordings of the Concerto for Orchestra, the one that came out on top was actually Frühbeck de Burgos, though I don't recall the coupled Bartok as being anything special.

https://www.amazon.com/Bartok-Kodaly-Orchestra-London-Symphony/dp/B004P9MSJI



Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1492
  • Location: U.S.A.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Eric Dolphy, Persian music, Sorabji, Scriabin, Sex Pistols
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2021, 08:34:50 PM »
The last time I compared recordings of the Concerto for Orchestra, the one that came out on top was actually Frühbeck de Burgos, though I don't recall the coupled Bartok as being anything special.

https://www.amazon.com/Bartok-Kodaly-Orchestra-London-Symphony/dp/B004P9MSJI



I checked it via streaming. Yes, the recording sounds vivacious and wonderful.  I will order the CD!
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 10:00:03 PM by Dry Brett Kavanaugh »

Online Pohjolas Daughter

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6171
  • Location: USA
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2021, 02:52:03 AM »
I've liked everything I've heard from Kodaly but actually have very little in my collection, Harry Janos on LP, Psalmus Hungaricus (on Chandos) and the Naxos CD with Peacock Variations etc) - oh dear - more temptation  ::))
Have you ever heard his Sonata for Solo Cello Jeffrey?  I did notice the date of your posting, so you may have gotten around to it in the meantime.  I haven't heard his Psalmus Hungaricus before now...will have to see whether I can find a copy to listen to.  :)

PD

Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1492
  • Location: U.S.A.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Eric Dolphy, Persian music, Sorabji, Scriabin, Sex Pistols
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2021, 07:46:35 AM »
Any opinion on the Serebrier’s recording? Thanks.

Offline VonStupp

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 336
    • Amazon Public Profile
  • Location: Breadbasket, USA
  • Currently Listening to:
    Backtracking through my catalog
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2021, 04:44:11 AM »
I thought I would rundown the three wide-release CD's available of Zoltán Kodály's Háry János since I revisited it today. The folk opera is an odd one, but fun for those who want to explore outside the famous orchestral suite. Not meant to be exhaustive, I may have missed some I am unfamiliar with:


István Kertész's 60's performance is studio bound. The narration is in English, but the singing is in Hungarian with an all-Hungarian cast. It is very apparent that Peter Ustinov recorded the work separately as narrator, and noticeable recording effects were added in post-production. My family had fun with this recording the last time we listened to it!


János Ferencsik on Hungaroton from the early 80's has no narration, but is sung in Hungarian, and the orchestra and choirs are Hungary-based. Perhaps the best sung, and maybe in the best sound too, this might be my preference for getting to the actual music without the radio play aspect. I think I remember an older Ferencsik LP too...


This most recent live recording (2000’s) is led by Friedemann Layer and narrated by Gérard Depardieu, although others speak as well. That means the narration is in French and the singing is in Hungarian. I am unfamiliar with the Montpellier ensembles in this recording, but who knows the next time Háry János will get a recording.

Summation:
For the comedy aspect of this story, I still look to the early Kertész. For the music, both vocal and instrumental, Ferencsik is the way to go. Since I don’t speak French, the Layer performance isn’t for me, but there is a contemporary orchestral feel to that performance compared to the others. I wonder if there is any interest in this work anymore...?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 04:46:28 AM by VonStupp »
“All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff.”

Offline VonStupp

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 336
    • Amazon Public Profile
  • Location: Breadbasket, USA
  • Currently Listening to:
    Backtracking through my catalog
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2021, 09:02:21 AM »
Zoltán Kodály
Psalm 114
Hymn to Zrinyi
Laudes Organi

Brighton Festival Chorus
László Heltay (1975 & 1977)


JF:
If you like choral music, I urge you to seek out Kodály’s Hymn to Zrinyi. It is a staggering difficult, a cappella tour-de-force for chorus and baritone solo, and we need more epically-scaled a cappella choral works from the 19th & early 20th Century. Similarly for pipe organ lovers, Laudes Organi is a star vehicle for that instrument. Both of these works, plus Psalm 114, remind me of Britten; the music chugs along merrily and then Kodály suddenly breaks into polytonality or light dissonance. Very fun music.

Finally finishing this, I still think I prefer János Ferencsik on Hungaroton over the László Heltay led choral works with organ, particularly for Ferencsik’s performance of the orchestrated Missa Brevis and additional Te Deum with his Hungarian choir and orchestra. Nonetheless, the Brighton Festival Chorus is beautiful here, and I love Benjamin Luxon’s baritone. István Kertész’s Psalmus Hungaricus is the headliner, though.



Zoltán Kodály
Psalmus Hungaricus, op. 13
London Symphony Orchestra
István Kertész

Missa Brevis
Pange Lingua

Brighton Festival Chorus
László Heltay


I am convinced that Kodály's Psalmus Hungaricus is a masterpiece. Kertesz's performance from 1970 in London is a grand, Romantic version that wears its exotic, Hungarian emotions on its sleeve. Having heard Mackerras' Danish recording a week or so ago, I miss his heldentenor's weight, but this one's not-so-heavy, Italianate style is still attractive.

The Missa Brevis and Pange Lingua are more traditional sounding to my ears, with nary a Nationalistic peep. If you like English cathedral-esque, classically-harmonized Mass settings, these will please greatly, probably moreso considering the British choir. Most interesting is a remarkable tribute to Palestrina in the a cappella middle section of Pange Lingua, and Kodály's general delight in chant and older choral influences of Haydn, Handel, and Bach.

János Ferencsik has an orchestrated version of Kodály's Missa Brevis on Hungaroton, and it is probably my preference. This one with organ sounds a little chaste, but it is still beautiful. I won't be able to get to the 2nd half of this recording until midweek.

« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 09:05:46 AM by VonStupp »
“All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff.”

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 56016
  • Béla Bartók (1881 - 1945)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Romantic Era through the 20th Century
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2021, 09:12:31 AM »
It’s official, VonStupp, you’re biggest Kodály fan I’ve ever seen. :D
“Competitions are for horses; not artists.” - Béla Bartók

Offline VonStupp

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 336
    • Amazon Public Profile
  • Location: Breadbasket, USA
  • Currently Listening to:
    Backtracking through my catalog
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2021, 09:45:18 AM »
It’s official, VonStupp, you’re biggest Kodály fan I’ve ever seen. :D

Actually, I am done with Kodály for a while. It has been interesting exploring him, since I mainly know him for his music education philosophies. Until I attempt Hungaroton's many complete editions (far from complete I am sure), I am content with my recent survey. For most of us, I can't say he is essential aside from the Hary Janos Suite and Psalmus Hungaricus, but I really liked the Hymn of Zrinyi from this last set. His Peacock Variations and orchestral sets of dances have their place too, I suppose. Plus, my family really liked listening to the complete Hary Janos, so that alone was worth something.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 11:47:30 AM by VonStupp »
“All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff.”

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 56016
  • Béla Bartók (1881 - 1945)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Romantic Era through the 20th Century
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2021, 10:28:26 AM »
Actually, I am done with Kodály for a while. It has been interesting exploring him, since I mainly know him for his music education philosophies. Until I attempt the Hungaroton 14-disc complete edition (far from complete I am sure), I am content with my recent survey. For most of us, I can't say he is essential aside from the Hary Janos Suite and Psalmus Hungaricus, but I really liked the Hymn of Zrinyi from this last set. His Peacock Variations and orchestral sets of dances have their place too, I suppose. Plus, my family really liked listening to the complete Hary Janos, so that alone was worth something.

Hmmm...there’s a 14-disc Complete Edition from Hungaroton? I might just have to look into this as I’ve been meaning to explore more of his music.
“Competitions are for horses; not artists.” - Béla Bartók

Offline VonStupp

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 336
    • Amazon Public Profile
  • Location: Breadbasket, USA
  • Currently Listening to:
    Backtracking through my catalog
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2021, 10:46:36 AM »
Hmmm...there’s a 14-disc Complete Edition from Hungaroton? I might just have to look into this as I’ve been meaning to explore more of his music.

Not as a box I don't think, but there are separate multi-disc compilations of 'complete' piano music, 'complete' organ music, 'complete' vocal music, 'complete' choral, etc. that amount to as much. In other words, they are separate sets of genre compilations rather than a collated complete edition in one place. I guess I misspoke, but I was looking at my Kodaly haves and wants...those are on hold for now.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 11:10:34 AM by VonStupp »
“All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff.”

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 56016
  • Béla Bartók (1881 - 1945)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Romantic Era through the 20th Century
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2021, 11:15:12 AM »
Not as a box I don't think, but there are separate multi-disc compilations of 'complete' piano music, 'complete' organ music, 'complete' vocal music, 'complete' choral, etc. that amount to as much. In other words, they are separate sets of genre compilations rather than a collated complete edition in one place. I guess I misspoke, but I was looking at my Kodaly haves and wants...those are on hold for now.

Yeah, that’s what I figured as I did a little research and couldn’t find a set that has this many discs. Hungaroton did something similar with their Bartók Complete Edition, but they did eventually box these up.
“Competitions are for horses; not artists.” - Béla Bartók

Offline Cato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9222
  • An American Hero!
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2021, 11:58:09 AM »
I heard the Kodaly symphony many moons ago, when it was given the title Symphony 1961.


In three movements, like the Rachmaninoff Third.


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/u8k5nG337mE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/u8k5nG337mE</a>

"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline VonStupp

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 336
    • Amazon Public Profile
  • Location: Breadbasket, USA
  • Currently Listening to:
    Backtracking through my catalog
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2021, 12:51:11 PM »
I heard the Kodaly symphony many moons ago, when it was given the title Symphony 1961.

Like you, that is one I haven't heard in some time as well. The Symphony didn't leave an impression on me at the time; maybe I will revisit it again. Your video of Tortelier on Chandos is one I have, paired with a Concerto for Orchestra and Theatre Overture I am not remembering too well either.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 12:56:11 PM by VonStupp »
“All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff.”

Offline Symphonic Addict

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3219
Re: Kodály's Covert Clan
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2021, 02:44:47 PM »
Zoltán Kodály
Psalm 114
Hymn to Zrinyi
Laudes Organi

Brighton Festival Chorus
László Heltay (1975 & 1977)


JF:
If you like choral music, I urge you to seek out Kodály’s Hymn to Zrinyi. It is a staggering difficult, a cappella tour-de-force for chorus and baritone solo, and we need more epically-scaled a cappella choral works from the 19th & early 20th Century. Similarly for pipe organ lovers, Laudes Organi is a star vehicle for that instrument. Both of these works, plus Psalm 114, remind me of Britten; the music chugs along merrily and then Kodály suddenly breaks into polytonality or light dissonance. Very fun music.

Interesting. Thanks for the suggestions.
Give us something else; give us something new; for Heaven's sake give us something bad, so long as we feel we are alive and active and not just passive admirers of tradition!

Carl Nielsen