Kodály's Covert Clan

Started by Lethevich, March 21, 2009, 07:13:40 AM

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Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: MusicTurner on July 14, 2021, 02:47:11 AM
I've assembled these, yet a lot of the bigger names missing:

CD  Kodaly:"Sonate f. Cello Solo" op.8 (1915)/Ullner/classcd 353-54
cd   Kodaly:"Sonate f. Cello Solo" op.8 (1915)/Bengtsson/daco 425
LP   Kodaly:"Sonate f. Cello Solo" op.8 (1915)/Varga/vox box 75 svbx 560
LP   Kodaly:"Sonate f. Cello Solo" op.8 (1915)/Turovsky/chan 84 abrd 1102
LP   Kodaly:"Sonate f. Cello Solo" op.8 (1915)/Petras/sup 81 1111 2847
LP   Kodaly:"Sonate f. Cello Solo" op.8 (1915)/Perenyi/hg st 78 slpx 11864

Initially I liked the Miroslav Petras a lot. On the LP cover photo, he looks like a boring accountant with huge glasses (1981), but his recording was good. Now I'd find it much more difficult to choose; would have to compare in detail. Some are more subdued or lyrical, some are highly dramatic or aggressive, and one's listening preferences can change from time to time ...

If curious, some Petras MP3 : https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/266711-strauss-kodaly-sonaty?trackId=3131657
The first recording that I ever heard of it was with Jiri Barta on Supraphon (a recentish recording of it) [With Jan Cech on piano for the other works].  Like you, I also have the Hungaroton recording with Perenyi.  I happened to stumble across a used recording for a very reasonable price and greedily grabbed it!  ;D  There's a very nice CD of it with some other works which I also enjoyed.  It's this one:

Think that I paid 5 or 8 dollars for it?  I did see that one could buy downloads of it with more music at Presto C:  https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7973837--kodaly-works-for-cello-complete

Thank you for the link by the way.  Interesting to hear how people's interpretations vary.  The musicians' names Varga and Turovsky sound familiar...not certain whether or not I have any recordings with them though?  :-\  The others I don't know.

One suggestion:  I would urge you to get ahold of a recording with Janos Starker.  I have one on Delos; he had recorded them a number of times (forget the number off the top of my head...actually, there are 6 recordings listed in his book).

Best wishes,

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Pohjolas Daughter

#81
Quote from: amw on July 14, 2021, 04:08:06 AM
I have the Truls Mørk, Miklós Perényi, and Natalie Clein recordings. With the caveat that Kodály is not a composer I collect, or know much about, the solo cello sonata is in my view a masterpiece and unwisely inspired me in my youth to write several extremely difficult pieces for solo cello.

The most immediately obvious feature of the work is its scordatura tuning, with the C and G strings tuned down to B and F-sharp. Thus, the lower three open strings produce a B minor triad, also coincidentally (or not) the tonality of the sonata. The other immediately obvious feature is that it is the largest-scale individual piece for solo cello written.... maybe ever? An average performance lasts about 32 minutes. Almost certainly there's some minimalist/drone pieces by e.g. John Cage or Eliane Radigue or Tony Conrad with a longer runtime, but the very much non-minimalist language here, using a relatively conventional late romantic musical language highly dependent on harmony and counterpoint, somehow makes listening to this more exhausting. I expect this may put off prospective listeners. For cellists, in difficulty and endurance demands, it is roughly the equivalent of Beethoven's "Hammerklavier" sonata and seems to be approached with a similar degree of either reverence or distaste.

The complete cello music takes up three CDs (with the ever-reliable Perényi doing the honours; the Hungaroton set is the only one I know of). I have presumably listened to all of it at some point, but apart from the much smaller-scale Sonata for Cello and Piano, I don't remember any of it as well.
Thank you for your insight into the musical structure of the work.  :)  Impressive that you were inspired to write some works for cello after listening to it!  I must admit, the first time listening to the CD my reaction was something like:  "Augh!  No, no, no!!"  It felt very modern and jarring to me.  Several months later I put it back on and this was when I had the jaw-dropping moment.  Obviously, it had more to do with the mood that I was in at the time rather than the work.  I like the few Truls Mork recordings that I have and have heard of Natalie Clein so will keep my eyes open.

Yet again, I'm rather surprised that neither of you two gents own a recording by Janos Starker.  If you haven't heard any of them before, there are a few youtube uploads of him playing it.  Alas, one that I really enjoyed (from the 1950's I believe?) which showed him performing it, has been removed.

Do you still play the cello now AMW?

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

MusicTurner

I agree, Starker is a very good candidate for any further exploration.

Perenyi, as others have stated, tends to do some fine stuff, such as the Beethoven set with Schiff, and for example, there's also a catchy cello concerto by the Hungarian composer Mihaly too. It's been a while though since I heard his Kodaly recording.

Pohjolas Daughter

#83
Quote from: MusicTurner on July 14, 2021, 04:20:56 AM
I agree, Starker is a very good candidate for any further exploration.

Perenyi, as others have stated, tends to do some fine stuff, such as the Beethoven set with Schiff, and for example, there's also a catchy cello concerto by the Hungarian composer Mihaly too. It's been a while though since I heard his Kodaly recording.
I'll have to look into Mihaly now!  :)

PD

EDIT:  Found a Hungaroton recording of his cello concerto; by the way, I had to look through a list on Wiki, but did find the composer (there are a fair number of Mihalys).  András Mihály  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_35b-OSIck
Pohjolas Daughter

VonStupp

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 13, 2021, 09:24:59 AM
VonStupp,

Have you managed getting around to listening to his Sonata for Solo Cello yet?  :)

PD

I have not. I am saving myself for Starker on Delos to arrive in my post box, which shouldn't be long.
"All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff."

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: VonStupp on July 14, 2021, 07:43:11 AM
I have not. I am saving myself for Starker on Delos to arrive in my post box, which shouldn't be long.
Oh, good!  :)  Meanwhile, I'm enjoying listening to a recording that he made when he was 26 for Period in 1951 (according to his discography, but someone on YT said was from 1950) and won him the Grand Prix du Disque.  Must get ahold of this Period recording!

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Symphonic Addict

The other day I was listening to the Kodály's Sonata from this disc and I thought it was magnificently played and recorded. No doubts it's one of the authentic pinnacles of solo cello music.

Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 14, 2021, 08:59:03 AM
The other day I was listening to the Kodály's Sonata from this disc and I thought it was magnificently played and recorded. No doubts it's one of the authentic pinnacles of solo cello music.


Nice!  How do you like the other works on the CD SA?

I'm truly astounded each time I listen to this work; I remember initially thinking something along the lines of: "How do they get all of these amazing sounds out of a cello?!"  And was also fascinated when I watched an old black and white video of Janos Starker performing it...looks like it would be so hard to play?

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 14, 2021, 09:45:03 AM
Nice!  How do you like the other works on the CD SA?

I'm truly astounded each time I listen to this work; I remember initially thinking something along the lines of: "How do they get all of these amazing sounds out of a cello?!"  And was also fascinated when I watched an old black and white video of Janos Starker performing it...looks like it would be so hard to play?

PD

Actually, I only heard the Kodály. I'll give a listen to the other works in due time.

Me too. At first I didn't care for this work that much, but on one of those days when you decide to revisit some works, I heard id and it clicked on me and I said: wow, how on earth didn't I like this piece before? With each listen the work grows on you.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 14, 2021, 09:58:06 AM
Actually, I only heard the Kodály. I'll give a listen to the other works in due time.

Me too. At first I didn't care for this work that much, but on one of those days when you decide to revisit some works, I heard id and it clicked on me and I said: wow, how on earth didn't I like this piece before? With each listen the work grows on you.
lol You're not alone there!  I don't know if you read my earlier comments about when I first heard it...reaction and then listening to it again some months later?

I need to re-dip into a few of those big-box sets that I have to visit other works (some anew and some revisits).   ::) :) Why does life have to interfere?  So much music to check out...and so many other things to do in life (including a number of daily 'musts')...

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Mirror Image

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 14, 2021, 10:15:59 AMWhy does life have to interfere?  So much music to check out...and so many other things to do in life (including a number of daily 'musts')...

PD

Yes, life does and will always get in the way, but I write this in a thankful tone as life would be boring if all you did was listen to music all of the time, have breakfast/lunch/dinner (or just breakfast and dinner or just whatever) and then go to sleep. It's our positive interactions with other people that help keep that flame alive and this is what this forum represents to me. While I've had some tiffs with some other members and still do from time to time, you'll never find this kind of interaction with other people about classical music in real life unless you personally know a GMG member outside of the forum. :)

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 14, 2021, 10:15:59 AM
lol You're not alone there!  I don't know if you read my earlier comments about when I first heard it...reaction and then listening to it again some months later?

I need to re-dip into a few of those big-box sets that I have to visit other works (some anew and some revisits).   ::) :) Why does life have to interfere?  So much music to check out...and so many other things to do in life (including a number of daily 'musts')...

PD

Yes, I did read them, and I felt identified with you.

Quite true. So much music to listen to but time doesn't help that much.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 14, 2021, 11:21:13 AM
Yes, life does and will always get in the way, but I write this in a thankful tone as life would be boring if all you did was listen to music all of the time, have breakfast/lunch/dinner (or just breakfast and dinner or just whatever) and then go to sleep. It's our positive interactions with other people that help keep that flame alive and this is what this forum represents to me. While I've had some tiffs with some other members and still do from time to time, you'll never find this kind of interaction with other people about classical music in real life unless you personally know a GMG member outside of the forum. :)

Same here. I concur with all what you wrote, John.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image


Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 14, 2021, 11:21:13 AM
Yes, life does and will always get in the way, but I write this in a thankful tone as life would be boring if all you did was listen to music all of the time, have breakfast/lunch/dinner (or just breakfast and dinner or just whatever) and then go to sleep. It's our positive interactions with other people that help keep that flame alive and this is what this forum represents to me. While I've had some tiffs with some other members and still do from time to time, you'll never find this kind of interaction with other people about classical music in real life unless you personally know a GMG member outside of the forum. :)
Re listening to music all of the time:  No, I wouldn't want to do that either (regardless of how varied I could make it).  And, yes, I do have other hobbies and interests in life too.  :)  I don't know how much time you need to spend on it, but I also cook and clean, garden and more.   ;D  And you never know who has classical music friends outside of the forum here....though I do enjoy and appreciate very much interacting with others here--sharing thoughts, recs and suggestions.  :)

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Mirror Image

Cross-post from the 'Purchases' thread -

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 04, 2021, 09:31:41 PM
Just bought a good bit of Kodály:



Upon revisitation of a Fischer disc I have owned for years and years (but also a 2-CD Dorati set on Decca), I thought it was time to dig a bit deeper into Kodály's oeuvre. I figured you couldn't go wrong with any of these recordings on Hungaroton, but I also sampled many of them and was rather enthralled by what I heard. I suppose the next purchases will be the songs and I think that'll be it as I don't have any interest in a cappella choral music and I know he wrote a lot of it. I like choral music that has some kind of accompaniment whether it be a large orchestra, a chamber ensemble, etc.

Pohjolas Daughter

You went "all-in" there John!  ;D

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Mirror Image

What I find particularly striking about Kodály's music is it's almost Impressionistic use of color. In many regards, he's the opposite of his friend and contemporary Bartók. It seems Bartók made more use of dissonance and his music has a rawer, sometimes even more gnarly style in general. Kodály seems to be more on the lyrical side, but this doesn't mean that he can't get a bit raucous when the music calls for it.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on August 05, 2021, 10:17:06 AM
You went "all-in" there John!  ;D

PD

Well, I'm an 'all or nothing' kind of listener. ;) :D Looking forward to digging more into this composer's oeuvre.

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 05, 2021, 10:04:36 AM
Cross-post from the 'Purchases' thread -

Upon revisitation of a Fischer disc I have owned for years and years (but also a 2-CD Dorati set on Decca), I thought it was time to dig a bit deeper into Kodály's oeuvre. I figured you couldn't go wrong with any of these recordings on Hungaroton, but I also sampled many of them and was rather enthralled by what I heard. I suppose the next purchases will be the songs and I think that'll be it as I don't have any interest in a cappella choral music and I know he wrote a lot of it. I like choral music that has some kind of accompaniment whether it be a large orchestra, a chamber ensemble, etc.

I love the red cover Ferencsik disc!