Pettersson's Pavilion

[Karl Henning]

You might get a different response if you simply said you don't enjoy or feel a connection with Pettersson outside of 6-8, instead of saying Pettersson had "lost his footing" in these works (i.e., stating they are poorly written works).

I have also had more success listening to 6-8, but don't assume this is due to lesser absolute quality, and that I won't eventually "get" the others, if I even find the time.

Hear, hear!

[Duke Bluebeard]

Hear, hear!

What do you care, Karl? You don't even like Pettersson's music, do you? I remember you being rather dismissive of him in the past.

[Duke Bluebeard]

6,7 and 8 are my favourites as well + the (at the end) heartbreakingly moving Violin Concerto No.2

Absolutely. I love that quotation of that Barefoot Song at the end of the 2nd VC. Quite moving, indeed.

[Duke Bluebeard]

Reading some of the past posts from defected members like Paul Best make me realize that I guess I'm not much of a fan of Pettersson's music after all. If he was still around, I'm sure he'd be giving me a good tongue-lashing by now, in which, I'd reply "Okay, well that's like your opinion, dude."

[Karl Henning]

What do you care, Karl? You don't even like Pettersson's music, do you? I remember you being rather dismissive of him in the past.

You remember correctly but incompletely. I've come to enjoy the Eighth Symphony, the Second Violin Concerto and the Concertos for string orchestra. So, you see, I use my ears fearlessly, and do not take a past opinion as set in stone. Separately, John (and we did miss you on the Zoom call) you took it ill when a dismissive opinion of yours was called "nonsense," but if challenging me with "What do you care?" is anything other than a personal remark, I shall entertain the argument. 

[Duke Bluebeard]

You remember correctly but incompletely. I've come to enjoy the Eighth Symphony, the Second Violin Concerto and the Concertos for string orchestra. So, you see, I use my ears fearlessly, and do not take a past opinion as set in stone. Separately, John (and we did miss you on the Zoom call) you took it ill when a dismissive opinion of yours was called "nonsense," but if challenging me with "What do you care?" is anything other than a personal remark, I shall entertain the argument.

Good to read you enjoy some Pettersson works. As for everything else you wrote, I can't be bothered with it. Life's too short to argue with someone who doesn't even like you.

[foxandpeng]

...

[Karl Henning]

Good to read you enjoy some Pettersson works. As for everything else you wrote, I can't be bothered with it. Life's too short to argue with someone who doesn't even like you.

Still not equal to the minimally adult activity of taking ownership of your own behavior. For the record, that was the root of our faling-out. Enjoy your "I'm never at fault" bubble. I am done with you.

[Duke Bluebeard]

Still not equal to the minimally adult activity of taking ownership of your own behavior. For the record, that was the root of our falling-out. Enjoy your "I'm never at fault" bubble. I am done with you.

And with your message, it only reinforces your own hatred. Good luck to you in your tiny corner of the world.

[Atriod]

I disagree with the above comments. Pettersson's 9th has become cemented as my favorite, and the idea that there is a huge falloff before or after the 6-8 arc I think is nonsense. His symphonies are surprisingly consistent in quality, just variable in expression.=

I agree with you on consistency. For me it would be like ranking Bartok's String Quartets, utterly impossible as they are all absolutely flawless.

I really can't think of a composer that has the same amount of consistency throughout a large cycle like Pettersson aside from Mahler.

[Atriod]

*turns on smoke machine and damp November weather, whilst smoking harsh, Eastern European cigarettes, and wearing an inadequate, frayed overcoat*

My preferred Pettersson attire for our cold New England winters. The design on the jumper/blanket goes well with the music

[CRCulver]

As I've said elsewhere, I get the impression that a lot of Pettersson fans are men who were going through some rough times at some point, and their rankings for best Pettersson symphonies might reflect whatever it was they were exposed to at the time. For me, the Tenth and Eleventh were on my iPod at that particular junction in my life, and those are still the symphonies I'm fondest of today.

I agree with you on consistency. For me it would be like ranking Bartok's String Quartets, utterly impossible as they are all absolutely flawless.

I've seen a pretty widespread opinion, even in scholarly circles that might be expected to be more dispassionate, that Bartók's Sixth is a disappointing follow-up to the Fourth and Fifth. On a Slipped Disc thread recently about a new recording of Ligeti's String Quartet No. 1, someone quipped that that was a better Bartók string quartet than Bartók's last one.

[DavidW]

I was attacking the idea and not the poster. Sorry if I offended. Especially wouldn't want to drive away a new poster, we don't get many of those.

[Duke Bluebeard]

I was attacking the idea and not the poster. Sorry if I offended. Especially wouldn't want to drive away a new poster, we don't get many of those.

Thanks and I'm not a new poster by any stretch of the word.

[vandermolen]

I agree with you on consistency. For me it would be like ranking Bartok's String Quartets, utterly impossible as they are all absolutely flawless.

I really can't think of a composer that has the same amount of consistency throughout a large cycle like Pettersson aside from Mahler.

A friend of mine thinks highly of No.4 as well and I enjoyed my old LP featuring Symphony No.2. I must have another go with No.9 but 6-8 remain the most approachable for me.

[lunar22]

just on the 9th -- my own view used to be that it was part of the central 6-9 of roughly equal merit, although no. 9 is certainly the most ambitious. I remember discussing it with Steve Elcock (Pettersson is probably the main influence on his own symphonies) and he regards this work as a failure -- far too long and lacking in direction. When I listened to it a few months ago, I also struggled, wondering what I had previously seen in it. Either tastes change or I just had a bad day. There are certainly those who regard it as his masterpiece.

[AnotherSpin]

just on the 9th -- my own view used to be that it was part of the central 6-9 of roughly equal merit, although no. 9 is certainly the most ambitious. I remember discussing it with Steve Elcock (Pettersson is probably the main influence on his own symphonies) and he regards this work as a failure -- far too long and lacking in direction. When I listened to it a few months ago, I also struggled, wondering what I had previously seen in it. Either tastes change or I just had a bad day. There are certainly those who regard it as his masterpiece.

It's astonishing how differently we hear things. For me, the 9th Symphony is actually the most direct. A powerful, continuous motion with almost paranoid persistence, which is more of a compliment than a criticism. I don't know where Pettersson was heading at that moment, but he was unstoppable.

As for consistency, the cycle doesn't seem unified to me.

[Maestro267]

Pettersson was heading for (or enduring) a nine-month hospital stay for an increasingly debilitating polyarthritis, during which he most definitely composed his 10th and 11th Symphonies, if not part of his 9th. Legend has it that he wrote music on bandages. His health struggles and sheer will to fight is a major consideration to think about when approaching his music.

[AnotherSpin]

P. composed his music not because of illness but in spite of it. The body, or the circumstances of the body, are merely perceived objects in our consciousness, and in this sense, they are no different from the shape of a cloud or a cat on a rug in a room.

[Maestro267]

Why did this thread suddenly get so antagonistic? I get the feeling a bunch of you are just out for a fight and you're making this community insufferable to be in. AnotherSpin, please read my post again and properly this time. You will then see that I never even remotely considered that he composed *because* of illness. I even mentioned his will to fight said circumstances. Which, ipso facto, is the state of composing *in spite* of his circumstances. But you cannot say that his illness had no impact whatsoever on his music.