Pettersson's Pavilion

Started by BachQ, April 08, 2007, 03:16:51 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

vandermolen

I remember how surprised I was when DGG issued an LP of Symphony 8 (Baltimore SO/Commissiona I think). Like Okko Kamu's excellent performance of Symphony 6 it was never, as far as I'm aware, issued on CD. My introduction to his music, however, was Dorati's wonderful LP of Symphony 7. His Violin Concerto 2 is his masterpiece I think.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

The new erato

Your post completely covers my experiencees.

vandermolen

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

snyprrr

Quote from: The new erato on May 25, 2016, 01:07:08 AM
Your post completely covers my experiencees.

At this point, I think it's fair to say that anyone getting into AGP for the first time might have the same trajectory. Right now, the only one I want to hear is the most hated: 13, simply because it's one of the most complex works ever...
... yea, when I have an hour during a thunderstorm...



What did it for me was learning that AGP and BAZ both studied with The'Lieb(?)... and, whereas both seem to share an equal amount of notes, BAZ went so much farther... all the way to the other side, whilst AGP seems to have stayed in the 1952-3 development era.

Maybe not a good morning for me to start ranting... especially with everyone's fav whipping boy...


sigh

The new erato

We whip with tender, loving care, dear snyppr

Androcles

Having resurrected a thread on Rosenberg, I thought it might be good to have a think about his compatriot. Listening to Rosenberg's choral symphonies reminded me of Pettersson's 12th, although that work is obviously rather more troubled.

I just listened to the Symphony No. 5, conducted by Andreas Kahler on Youtube. Its really good - better than my CPO disc. Its really emotionally powerful in a way that the CPO is not. It seems connected to the hyper-emotionality of next three symphonies. I think the CPO has got a dynamics problem. Any thoughts on Symphony No. 5?

It never ceases to amaze me how much difference the conductor's interpretation makes for this composer.

Now BIS is well into releasing the whole cycle and the recordings are getting good reviews, what do you think, does Pettersson stand a chance of breaking into the mainstream?
And, moreover, it is art in its most general and comprehensive form that is here discussed, for the dialogue embraces everything connected with it, from its greatest object, the state, to its least, the embellishment of sensuous existence.

vandermolen

Quote from: Androcles on October 27, 2016, 02:34:09 PM
Having resurrected a thread on Rosenberg, I thought it might be good to have a think about his compatriot. Listening to Rosenberg's choral symphonies reminded me of Pettersson's 12th, although that work is obviously rather more troubled.

I just listened to the Symphony No. 5, conducted by Andreas Kahler on Youtube. Its really good - better than my CPO disc. Its really emotionally powerful in a way that the CPO is not. It seems connected to the hyper-emotionality of next three symphonies. I think the CPO has got a dynamics problem. Any thoughts on Symphony No. 5?

It never ceases to amaze me how much difference the conductor's interpretation makes for this composer.

Now BIS is well into releasing the whole cycle and the recordings are getting good reviews, what do you think, does Pettersson stand a chance of breaking into the mainstream?
I don't know Symphony 5 well and must listen to it. Your comment about conductors is very true with Pettersson I think. With this in mind it's a pity that Kamu's CBS recording of Symphony 6 and Commissiona's DGG version of Symphony 8 have never been released on CD. I think that Symphony 7 is the only one with potentially mainstream appeal or possibly the magnificent Violin Concerto 2 but I suspect that Pettersson will remain of minority appeal. For economic reasons concert promoters seem to be less and less adventurous for their choice of repertoire.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

The new erato

#887
Quote from: vandermolen on October 27, 2016, 10:53:15 PM
I don't know Symphony 5 well and must listen to it. Your comment about conductors is very true with Pettersson I think. With this in mind it's a pity that Kamu's CBS recording of Symphony 6 and Commissiona's DGG version of Symphony 8 have never been released on CD.
Truly wonderful versions which I have on LP, having been bitten by the Pettersson bug early on.

Quote from: vandermolen on October 27, 2016, 10:53:15 PM
I think that Symphony 7 is the only one with potentially mainstream appeal or possibly the magnificent Violin Concerto 2 but I suspect that Pettersson will remain of minority appeal. For economic reasons concert promoters seem to be less and less adventurous for their choice of repertoire.
No 7 is the only one I've ever heard or seen programmed in Norway except for no 13 commisioned and premiered by the Bergen orchestra (I saw it directly transmitted on TV in the 70ies; not a work to be enjoyed on a black and white TV set with a small mono speaker). Violin Concerto 2 is indeed magnificent, but it's long (if a concerto is long it needs to be very well known to be programmed) and totaly exhausting for orchestra and soloist (meaning that few will be interested in the investment og learning it).

CRCulver

I have often wondered why the Eighth hasn't been programmed more often. It's got a smoothly flowing quality and a relatively low amount of anger for a Pettersson symphony that ought to make it "accessible" to audiences. It reminds me somewhat of Nielsen.

My favourite Pettersson symphonies are the Tenth and Eleventh, and sadly a barrier to getting those on programmes is the length. At only 20–30 minutes long, they would need to share half of a concert with another piece, but they are so intense on their own that a pairing would feel inappropriate.

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: CRCulver on October 28, 2016, 12:20:19 AM
I have often wondered why the Eighth hasn't been programmed more often. It's got a smoothly flowing quality and a relatively low amount of anger for a Pettersson symphony that ought to make it "accessible" to audiences. It reminds me somewhat of Nielsen.

I agree. Also, it's in 2 mvts. so you get a small break from the anguish, and the first mvt. is a sort of sonata form that is easy to follow.

It does remind me a lot of Nielsen's 5th; I really felt that connection listening to the CSO performance I posted above.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Androcles

I guess with respect to breaking into the mainstream, I was thinking of Mark Morris' comments in 'The Pimlico Dictionary of Twentieth Century Composers':

'It may be that (as was once the case with Mahler) Pettersson's enormous and heartfelt symphonies have suffered from the lack of performances by sympathetic world-class forces. Apart from scores, virtually the only acquaintance possible with Pettersson's music has been through recordings, often made shortly after premieres. Major interpreters may reveal new dimensions to, in particular, the structure of Pettersson's creations; conversely, they may confirm the inability of those structures to hold up such great lengths, troubled emotions, and limitations of thematic material. His music - and in particular the seventh and eighth symphonies - certainly deserves that test' (p382)

Assuming that Lindberg's (and before him, Segerstam's) performances are the kind of thing Mark Morris has in mind, how do you think Pettersson's music stands up? I certainly think Lindberg made more sense of the Ninth than anyone before him. The 7th and 8th are obviously the most approachable, with the 6th not far behind. 5 and 9 stand on the cusp of those central three. I could imagine 5-9 getting something of a following from adventurous conductors and audiences, although as you say, the 7th is the most obvious candidate for making a breakthrough. The 2nd Violin Concerto is certainly a fantastic work, but I'm not sure its as approachable as the 7th Symphony.

The early symphonies are a bit of a challenge as the emotion doesn't sit on the surface in quite the same way, and in the later symphonies you have to listen quite a few times before the rather complex structures start to work their way out of the grimy polyphonic mud into your consciousness....
And, moreover, it is art in its most general and comprehensive form that is here discussed, for the dialogue embraces everything connected with it, from its greatest object, the state, to its least, the embellishment of sensuous existence.

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: Androcles on October 28, 2016, 01:34:45 PM

Assuming that Lindberg's (and before him, Segerstam's) performances are the kind of thing Mark Morris has in mind, how do you think Pettersson's music stands up? I certainly think Lindberg made more sense of the Ninth than anyone before him. The 7th and 8th are obviously the most approachable, with the 6th not far behind. 5 and 9 stand on the cusp of those central three. I could imagine 5-9 getting something of a following from adventurous conductors and audiences, although as you say, the 7th is the most obvious candidate for making a breakthrough. The 2nd Violin Concerto is certainly a fantastic work, but I'm not sure its as approachable as the 7th Symphony.


To my mind, symphonies 6-8 are the heart of his work, and the only symphonies that stand a chance of being performed more often than once in a blue moon. Possibly one could add the 2nd VC - it certainly has its fans around here - but it must be an exhausting piece to perform.

Of the late symphonies, only #14 has attracted me back for further listens. I just realized that the 6th Sym., 2nd VC and 14th Sym. all have an interesting thing in common: they are each based on one of AP's "Barefoot Songs." Perhaps this gives them a lyrical element that makes them more immediately attractive.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on October 28, 2016, 01:51:49 PM

Of the late symphonies, only #14 has attracted me back for further listens.

Speaking of which, Lindberg's 14th was just released:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Mar/Pettersson_sy14_BIS2230.htm

I'm curious to hear how it stacks up. In one respect it is already superior: multiple tracks, as opposed to CPO's one 47-minute track.

The review refers to the piece having "movements," although as far as I know it's a one-movement work. Maybe the reviewer was referring to the individual tracks?
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

vandermolen

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on October 28, 2016, 01:51:49 PM
To my mind, symphonies 6-8 are the heart of his work, and the only symphonies that stand a chance of being performed more often than once in a blue moon. Possibly one could add the 2nd VC - it certainly has its fans around here - but it must be an exhausting piece to perform.

Of the late symphonies, only #14 has attracted me back for further listens. I just realized that the 6th Sym., 2nd VC and 14th Sym. all have an interesting thing in common: they are each based on one of AP's "Barefoot Songs." Perhaps this gives them a lyrical element that makes them more immediately attractive.
Interesting point about the 'Barefoot Songs'. I knew that VC 2 was based on one but not the other works.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

I really hope Lindberg conducts Pettersson's 7th as this is really the only work of his I enjoy with any frequency.

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 06, 2017, 08:16:17 AM
I really hope Lindberg conducts Pettersson's 7th as this is really the only work of his I enjoy with any frequency.

I doubt this will happen. BIS already has a 7th under Segerstam, and I think Lindberg is just filling in the symphonies that Segerstam didn't conduct.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Mirror Image

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on March 06, 2017, 09:29:55 AM
I doubt this will happen. BIS already has a 7th under Segerstam, and I think Lindberg is just filling in the symphonies that Segerstam didn't conduct.

Wouldn't that be my luck. :-\

snyprrr

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on March 06, 2017, 09:29:55 AM
I doubt this will happen. BIS already has a 7th under Segerstam, and I think Lindberg is just filling in the symphonies that Segerstam didn't conduct.

The MusicWeb review states that 7 & 17 will be up next year.

The new erato

Quote from: snyprrr on March 06, 2017, 11:49:33 AM
The MusicWeb review states that 7 & 17 will be up next year.
This site emphatically states that this will be so: http://www.norrkopingssymfoniorkester.se/orkestern/aktuellt/allan-pettersson/inspelningsplan-foer-allan-pettersson-projektet

This probably is a late addition, as the box set originally were to use the existing Segerstam recording. The success of the series probably have made them extend the recording series.

Mirror Image

Quote from: snyprrr on March 06, 2017, 11:49:33 AM
The MusicWeb review states that 7 & 17 will be up next year.

Awesome! 8)