Pettersson's Pavilion

Started by BachQ, April 08, 2007, 03:16:51 AM

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Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on April 09, 2017, 11:41:30 AM
I don't think so. It's one of several pioneering AP performances that has never been re-released.

From what I've read, it's much longer and slower than the 2 other recordings, and the orchestra was kinda flying by the seat of their pants for this one anyway. So it may not be very good.

Yeah, Holy Grails often come tarnished  ;)

I'm happy with the two Ninths I have.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Turner

#921
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on April 09, 2017, 11:41:30 AM

From what I've read, it's much longer and slower than the 2 other recordings, and the orchestra was kinda flying by the seat of their pants for this one anyway. So it may not be very good.
On the contrary. It makes the structures clearer, the themes more beautiful, and the symphony a much more movingly humane experience. Fundamentally different, for sure.

CRCulver

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 09, 2017, 08:58:56 AM
Well, I've never heard any Pettersson work that went anywhere

That's a curious remark. Have you heard Petersson's Eleventh, for example? That work is a progression through several very distinct musical landscapes.  Impressively, each different section flows seamlessly from the passage before it, leading me to rank it alongside great Nordic symphonies in the Sibelius – Holmboe – early Nørgård vein. Pettersson's music may be almost invariably dour in mood, but in terms of harmonic progression there is often a lot going on.

rw1883

Hello Sarge,

You can a get a copy of the Comissiona here: http://www.haydnhouse.com/composer.htm along with Kamu's version of the 6th, which I highly recommend. There are a few others as well...

Paul

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 09, 2017, 08:46:10 AM
That's supposed to be the Holy Grail of P9s...but is it available on CD?

Sarge

vandermolen

The Commissiona, Baltimore SO Symphony 8 incredibly on DGG, the Kamu No 6 on CBS and No.7, Dorati on Decca were great discoveries in my youth along with VC No.2.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

The new erato

Quote from: vandermolen on April 14, 2017, 11:44:43 PM
The Commissiona, Baltimore SO Symphony 8 incredibly on DGG, the Kamu No 6 on CBS and No.7, Dorati on Decca were great discoveries in my youth along with VC No.2.
I have all those on vinyl. Major influences.....

Turner

Quote from: vandermolen on April 14, 2017, 11:44:43 PM
The Commissiona, Baltimore SO Symphony 8 incredibly on DGG, the Kamu No 6 on CBS and No.7, Dorati on Decca were great discoveries in my youth along with VC No.2.
+1

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: rw1883 on April 14, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Hello Sarge,

You can a get a copy of the Comissiona here: http://www.haydnhouse.com/composer.htm along with Kamu's version of the 6th, which I highly recommend. There are a few others as well...

Paul

Thanks for the link.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: CRCulver on April 10, 2017, 09:16:15 AM
Have you heard Petersson's Eleventh, for example?



A number of folks here and elsewhere have praised this disc of AP's 10th and 11th symphonies. So I picked it up.

Wow, these are two of the most brutal pieces I've ever heard! In particular, the 10th sounds like the 2nd mvt. of Mahler 5, with the relaxed/slow parts stripped out and the remaining loud/angry bits stretched out to 25 minutes. And it's not just anger, there's plenty of despair in the second half. So he's got that covered as well.

The 11th starts out peacefully. You think it won't be quite as harsh, but then you are sucked into a vortex of constant storms and anger, only to be spit out 20 minutes later. The coda, where the music melts away like the Wicked Witch of the West, is perhaps the highlight.

This kind of music is like an addictive substance. At first it makes you sick, but pretty soon you're coming back for more.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

calyptorhynchus

QuoteWow, these are two of the most brutal pieces I've ever heard! In particular, the 10th sounds like the 2nd mvt. of Mahler 5, with the relaxed/slow parts stripped out and the remaining loud/angry bits stretched out to 25 minutes. And it's not just anger, there's plenty of despair in the second half. So he's got that covered as well.

The 11th starts out peacefully. You think it won't be quite as harsh, but then you are sucked into a vortex of constant storms and anger, only to be spit out 20 minutes later. The coda, where the music melts away like the Wicked Witch of the West, is perhaps the highlight.

This kind of music is like an addictive substance. At first it makes you sick, but pretty soon you're coming back for more.

I often listen to Pettersson symphonies whilst doing the shopping at our local supermarket, they are just the right length for getting there, selecting the week's supplies and then ending just before the checkout so I can talk normally to the checkout person.

The only problem I have with them is that Pettersson is vastly more optimistic and hopeful than I am. LOL  :D
'Many men are melancholy by hearing music, but it is a pleasing melancholy that it causeth.' Robert Burton

snyprrr

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 29, 2017, 11:26:58 AM


A number of folks here and elsewhere have praised this disc of AP's 10th and 11th symphonies. So I picked it up.

Wow, these are two of the most brutal pieces I've ever heard! In particular, the 10th sounds like the 2nd mvt. of Mahler 5, with the relaxed/slow parts stripped out and the remaining loud/angry bits stretched out to 25 minutes. And it's not just anger, there's plenty of despair in the second half. So he's got that covered as well.

The 11th starts out peacefully. You think it won't be quite as harsh, but then you are sucked into a vortex of constant storms and anger, only to be spit out 20 minutes later. The coda, where the music melts away like the Wicked Witch of the West, is perhaps the highlight.

This kind of music is like an addictive substance. At first it makes you sick, but pretty soon you're coming back for more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0fDzWbjjDA

Symphony 10, Dorati

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: calyptorhynchus on July 01, 2017, 04:56:57 PM
The only problem I have with them is that Pettersson is vastly more optimistic and hopeful than I am. LOL  :D

Yeah, his happyface, feelgood optimism grates after a while. Someone should have explained to him that life can be tough  :laugh:
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Rons_talking

Quote from: The new erato on April 15, 2017, 01:27:43 AM
I have all those on vinyl. Major influences.....

Great recording!

vandermolen

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on July 02, 2017, 01:32:57 PM
Yeah, his happyface, feelgood optimism grates after a while. Someone should have explained to him that life can be tough  :laugh:
Yes - some people just indulge in 'rampant self-pity'.
;D
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Two recent Pettersson acquisitions



Curiosity got the better of me, and I managed to track down a copy of the Kamu recording of the 6th Symphony (CBS LP from 1976). This record has acquired a legendary reputation because it has never been reissued, but I managed to get it at a decent price from Discogs (copies on Amazon are going for $39 and up).

Naturally, when listening I was comparing it with the recent Lindberg recording, which got me listening to Pettersson again after avoiding him for years. On the whole, I think Lindberg wins on points. The orchestra plays better (things have obviously improved with that ensemble over the years), the sound is better, and Lindberg brings out more details while keeping things moving and goal-oriented. Curiously, although Lindberg is about 6 minutes slower than Kamu, I really didn't feel the difference, which is a point in Lindberg's favor I think.

But Kamu scores on certain other aspects. For one thing, the percussion really bites here (to the point of obliterating some other details), and very importantly, Kamu renders the big "lyrical island" at the end in a warmer, more expansive manner that feels like a blessed relief. Also, there's a greater sense of desperation and strain at some points in this older version, which I appreciate. In any case it's nice to have two different views of this great symphony.



And here's another in Lindberg's series, the 14th Symphony. Comparing this to the Arnell version on CPO which I've had for a while, I find the Lindberg to be superior in every way. Sound is much more detailed, playing is more secure, interpretation is again notably slower than the competition, but with no loss of drama and a greater sense of structure and orientation towards a goal. There is also a lavish, luxurious sonic feeling here, the sort of thing one hears in early Schoenberg or late Mahler, which is only hinted at in the CPO recording. The 14th is the only of the later symphonies that repeatedly pulls me back, and this recording confirms that it's one of Pettersson's best overall.

I've been impressed enough by these Lindberg performances, I'm almost tempted to try his recording of the 13th (the piece I hated so much!) to see if I might like it better under his direction.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

The new erato

I cannot make heads or tails of the 13th in any version.

vandermolen

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on February 25, 2018, 04:40:28 PM
Two recent Pettersson acquisitions



Curiosity got the better of me, and I managed to track down a copy of the Kamu recording of the 6th Symphony (CBS LP from 1976). This record has acquired a legendary reputation because it has never been reissued, but I managed to get it at a decent price from Discogs (copies on Amazon are going for $39 and up).

Naturally, when listening I was comparing it with the recent Lindberg recording, which got me listening to Pettersson again after avoiding him for years. On the whole, I think Lindberg wins on points. The orchestra plays better (things have obviously improved with that ensemble over the years), the sound is better, and Lindberg brings out more details while keeping things moving and goal-oriented. Curiously, although Lindberg is about 6 minutes slower than Kamu, I really didn't feel the difference, which is a point in Lindberg's favor I think.

But Kamu scores on certain other aspects. For one thing, the percussion really bites here (to the point of obliterating some other details), and very importantly, Kamu renders the big "lyrical island" at the end in a warmer, more expansive manner that feels like a blessed relief. Also, there's a greater sense of desperation and strain at some points in this older version, which I appreciate. In any case it's nice to have two different views of this great symphony.



And here's another in Lindberg's series, the 14th Symphony. Comparing this to the Arnell version on CPO which I've had for a while, I find the Lindberg to be superior in every way. Sound is much more detailed, playing is more secure, interpretation is again notably slower than the competition, but with no loss of drama and a greater sense of structure and orientation towards a goal. There is also a lavish, luxurious sonic feeling here, the sort of thing one hears in early Schoenberg or late Mahler, which is only hinted at in the CPO recording. The 14th is the only of the later symphonies that repeatedly pulls me back, and this recording confirms that it's one of Pettersson's best overall.

I've been impressed enough by these Lindberg performances, I'm almost tempted to try his recording of the 13th (the piece I hated so much!) to see if I might like it better under his direction.
The Kamu LP was one of my introductions to Pettersson after Dorati's Decca LP of Symphony 7. Yes, 'the long struggle towards the sunrise' at the conclusion is especially morning in Kamu's recording of Symphony 6.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

The new erato

I have Kamu's 6th, Dorati's 7th and Commisiona's 8th on LP but haven't heard them for years having no LP player hooked up to the system. For decades they were my only Pettersson, together with Ida Handel's VC2.  Valuable review of the Kamu, thanks.

amw

#938
I actually kind of liked the 13th? Does everyone hate it? Maybe not "liked" but when you're feeling incredibly sad and hopeless about the state of the world or your life or whatever it provides a really concentrated burst of fury and despair that's really cathartic somehow. Sort of the equivalent of listening to someone whom you agree with politically rant angrily about everything that's wrong with politics for an hour, which is a fairly popular genre of podcast these days >.>

The other music by Pettersson I have enjoyed includes the third concerto for strings, the 14th Symphony, and some of the chamber music..... haven't got on with the earlier symphonies but I only have the CPO set

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: vandermolen on February 26, 2018, 11:05:51 PM
'the long struggle towards the sunrise'

I recognize this phrase from the (uncredited) liner notes. They are good old-fashioned extensive LP liner notes, full of musical examples that I can tap out on the piano. Strangely however, they don't mention the Barefoot Song the symphony is based on.

Also, the recording of the 14th comes with a really good 2-hour documentary on Pettersson, featuring interviews with the man himself late in life. (I watched the first half yesterday.) He comes across as irritable and self-centered, which is totally understandable given the crippling effects of arthritis which you can see here. But he also shows a sense of humor and whimsy which I did not expect to encounter in a composer of such notoriously gloomy music.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach