Pettersson's Pavilion

Started by BachQ, April 08, 2007, 03:16:51 AM

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The new erato

I heard the Dorati 7th in 1974 (I think....); anybody beat that? I still have the LP.

J.Z. Herrenberg

#161
Quote from: Wurstwasser on January 20, 2008, 12:30:16 AM
Jezetha, I like the Trojahn/CPO release of #6 much more, but good you started... :)
Yes, I listened to Sym. No. 6 about ten million times in 2005-2006...As often as I could afford it. It's catching from the very beginning. The simple and dark theme in the beginning (and later in the symphony) ... great.

I'll listen to the Trojahn/CPO release too, of course. But not now. As I said - the music is of such intensity when you really respond to it, you (i.e. I) can't repeat the exercise too often. But I will listen to the teaser... If the Trojahn is better, as you say, it must be devastating.  :o

Help!

Johan
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Lethevich

Did anyone make a backup of Xantus's excellent analysises of Pettersson's symphonies from the old (IIRC, now dead) forum?
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

#163
Quote from: Lethe on January 20, 2008, 12:38:55 AMDid anyone make a backup of Xantus's excellent analysises of Pettersson's symphonies from the old (IIRC, now dead) forum?
Yes I was just thinking the same! Cannot find the old thread. I've got them.

EDIT2: I hope Xantus wouldn't mind...  :)

Pettersson Symphony reviews/analysis of GMG user Xantus'Murrelet:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/21/1446950/xantus_pettersson_reviews.zip (Syms. 6-11,13-15, I've formatted the text files now.)

J.Z. Herrenberg

#164
Quote from: Wurstwasser on January 20, 2008, 12:40:42 AM
Yes I was just thinking the same! Cannot find the old thread. I've got them.

Great service, Wurstwasser! And - I just listened to your teaser. Very very beautiful. That syncopated motif, used as a sort of slow ostinato underpinning that wonderful cantilena, really must have haunted Pettersson. It will be interesting to see if it makes an appearance in the Eighth...

P.S. I just had a peek at these descriptive analyses - he really has done his homework. It will be interesting for me to contrast and compare my reactions/ideas with his. Something for the coming months...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Lethevich

Quote from: Wurstwasser on January 20, 2008, 12:40:42 AM
Yes I was just thinking the same! Cannot find the old thread. I've got them.

EDIT2: I hope Xantus wouldn't mind...  :)

Pettersson Symphony reviews/analysis of GMG user Xantus'Murrelet:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/21/1446950/xantus_pettersson_reviews.zip (Syms. 6-11,13-15, I've formatted the text files now.)

Danke :) It will be useful for the ones other than 6-7-8, which I admit, I am by far most familiar with.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

J.Z. Herrenberg

I think I have to explore Pettersson in a more leisurely fashion. After two completely new Pettersson symphonies in one go, I'm still a bit numb. I must think of my health...  ;)
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

paulb

Quote from: Jezetha on January 20, 2008, 05:15:16 AM
I think I have to explore Pettersson in a more leisurely fashion. After two completely new Pettersson symphonies in one go, I'm still a bit numb. I must think of my health...  ;)

Johan
Thanks kindly for the MP5 links to the CPO 12th.
Got to hear the 1st part of 5.
Interesting how listening on headphones really drives the immediacy of the dark heavy atmosphere of the work right to the core. The speaker config keeps the music at a  distance, and negates some of the inner turmoils of the work. maybe headphones is really the way to get to know a  emotionally gripping work like the 12th, as one would have a  similar immediacy of experience in a  live concert.
Interesting idea.

So to think the CPO is heavy enough of an experience, don't even think to consider the Caprice which takes the work with even heavier male chorus. One sinks even lower into this tragic world of the 12th.
Wjat a  mystical work is the 12th!
I might say its , in fact is my most powerful experience in Pettersson.
I may order a  second copy of the caprice for future needs. Donate a  copy to Tulane possibly, close friend, etc. Who knows when or if caprice will ever re-release.

Varg

#168
Quote from: paulb on January 15, 2008, 09:17:02 AM
Varg. I tend not to suggest the 2,3,4,5 syms for anyone. I feel the 6th begins the journey into Pettersson.

btw how do you like the photo of Pettersson? It shows more about the man than the photo in your profile.
Schnittke and Pettersson , unlike any other composers in late 20th C music. Amazing they were contemporaries , just miles apart and speaking  a  profound language that only a   few can hear. Ahh these days we live in. Unlike any in history.


For me, it start with the 6th and end with the 8th. Of course, his own language continue to evolve after that; i just happen to not like it very much, that is, if i compare it with Pettersson himself. What can possibly sound as good as his middle symphonies (from any composer, including Pettersson), especially his 6th and 7th! I witness perfection each time i listen to them.

With all that said, i find his 2-3-4-5 symphonies to be nearly uninteresting, even if i - kind of -  enjoy the 2nd and 5th from time to time; but i know they would be appealing to a lot of people, and that would be selfish and pretentious of me to told them to not bother, and unfair to the composer.

Photo's looking good. You're right, it's clearer than mine; but that's no beauty contest! It shows that we both have great admiration for the composer, and that is all that matters.

paulb

The only composer i know that might closely approach Pettersson in terms of complexity and density would be Schnittke.  Its really impossible to compare these 2 composers, i feel like they are twin spirits, thus equals.
And yes I am taking into consideration Shostakovich's 5,7,8 syms when making this statement.

Lilas Pastia

- Post symphony 11, Petterson's most significant work (and possibly his calling card to immortality) is the 2nd violin concerto.

- Johan, please let us (me) know about that novel of yours when it's published :)

paulb

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on January 25, 2008, 09:29:28 PM
- Post symphony 11, Petterson's most significant work (and possibly his calling card to immortality) is the 2nd violin concerto.



The 2nd vc is no doubt a  pinnacle of creative expression  in his output. But so are sym 12/especially the Caprice VERSION (the cpo and caprice are THAT DIFFERENT), sym 13, 14,15.
The 13th in my mind is equal to the depth , complexity, dynamics as the 2nd vc, and sym 12/caprice.
These 3 works are the highest peaks in Pettersson's mountain range.
Pettersson's works I can only describe in terms of the Mt Zion National park/Utah and also The Himalayan range/Mt Everest.
Whereas Schnittke would be the Balck Forest /Germany in its pristine state, about 2000 yrs ago, before what the romans began, and native peoples finsihed off in the subsequent 2000 yrs, then also the northern primeval forests of russia , also before russian loggers desimated that forest, and last but certainly not least, Schnittke's music strikes me as that forest of the west coast/USA, where the giant red woods and sequoias onced towered as far as the eye could see.
That to me is Schnittke.
That to me is Pettersson
8) :)

Paul

BachQ

Quote from: paulb on January 26, 2008, 06:15:51 AM

These 3 works are the highest peaks in Pettersson's mountain range.
Pettersson's works I can only describe in terms of the Mt Zion National park/Utah and also The Himalayan range/Mt Everest.
Whereas Schnittke would be the Balck Forest /Germany in its pristine state, about 2000 yrs ago, before what the romans began, and native peoples finsihed off in the subsequent 2000 yrs, then also the northern primeval forests of russia , also before russian loggers desimated that forest, and last but certainly not least, Schnittke's music strikes me as that forest of the west coast/USA, where the giant red woods and sequoias onced towered as far as the eye could see.
That to me is Schnittke.
That to me is Pettersson
8) :)

Paul

Paul,

I like your "mountain range" metaphor, and I embrace its application to Pettersson's symphony cycle.

However, I personally find that metaphor to be equally applicable to Anton Bruckner's symphonies.  Indeed, the only way I can describe the first movement of Bruckner's Ninth Symphony in D Minor is with a mountain range metaphor: once the listener scales the climax of the opening theme, the listener becomes immediately drawn to other mountains in the distance ...... reaching one peak only serves to whet the listener's appetite for reaching other peaks that become visible upon ascending the previous peak ....... and so on ...... It becomes a successive journey of achievement coupled with an ever greater yearning, searching, and striving .........

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Dm on January 26, 2008, 07:22:20 AM
Paul,

I like your "mountain range" metaphor, and I embrace its application to Pettersson's symphony cycle.

However, I personally find that metaphor to be equally applicable to Anton Bruckner's symphonies.

"When I think of Havergal Brian's 32 symphonies as a single body of work, the image that most often comes to mind is of a great range of mountains, marching in a line from horizon to horizon. It is a useful metaphor, for while it stresses the works' basic kinship it also reminds us of the individuality of each. Every peak stands alone with its own particular formation of spur and ridge, scarp and glacier - nor do any two have exactly the same mass, or reach exactly the same level."

Malcolm MacDonald, The Symphonies of Havergal Brian, Vol. 2  (1974)
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

paulb

Quote from: Dm on January 26, 2008, 07:22:20 AM
Paul,

I like your "mountain range" metaphor, and I embrace its application to Pettersson's symphony cycle.

However, I personally find that metaphor to be equally applicable to Anton Bruckner's symphonies.  Indeed, the only way I can describe the first movement of Bruckner's Ninth Symphony in D Minor is with a mountain range metaphor: once the listener scales the climax of the opening theme, the listener becomes immediately drawn to other mountains in the distance ...... reaching one peak only serves to whet the listener's appetite for reaching other peaks that become visible upon ascending the previous peak ....... and so on ...... It becomes a successive journey of achievement coupled with an ever greater yearning, searching, and striving .........

I do not know Brucker well enough, only know his muisc is not for me. I might find upon listening to Bruckner that i am lost in some lonely boring, inclement weather conditioned valley enviornment within the mountain range.
With Pettersson its like one has wings of an eagle, maybe on a  perfect updraft taking your hangglider across the entire Mt zion Nat park/Grand Canyon.
Breath-taking for sure. But not w/o its risks and frights. soring just over those jagged tops of the orange colored peaks in My Zion, gliding along gorges of the grand cayon's towering walls of ancient designs.
This is what i was more trying to express.
Not to take away from your Bruckner experience, mind you.

I've only been to MT Zion for one day, I need at least another month to see half of what's in those ranges.
its Petterssonian territory, a  very spiritual place. that entire southwest is spiritual, outside the new sprawling cities that is.

paulb

Quote from: Dm on April 08, 2007, 12:39:40 PM
Perhaps you "worship" the music (or its beauty), not the composer . . . . . .

For some  reason, the music of Pettersson evokes depth, ideas , feelings and so probes our minds, our spirits.  Comissiona noticed that after Pettersson concerts, not just a  few audience members were noticed to be so moved as to tears.
I believe Comissiona mentions this on the DVD documentary I have on Pettersson, one day soon i'll eplay it.
I only saw it once.
its mostly in swedish, Pettersson is in the film. A swedish gentleman was so kind to send me a  copy.
In Pettersson talk, more often than any other composer, words used to describe the music, the experience, are also expressions found in religious literature.
Pettersson himself says: "...in order to rediscover the song once sung by the soul"

Can i get a  Amen halaluhia  ?
No thats church stuff , more identified with conventional, conservative religionISTS.
Pettersson's meanings of the soul are somewhat ofa   different nature. More in line with Jung's ideas on the soul, and also those ideas of Plato/Socrates on the soul. Understandings far from how the church understands soul.
Besides when we say church, which church are you refering to? There are thousands of christian sects and other world religions are also in a  state of fragmentation. Tibetan Buddhism would be the exception. But that form of religion is far away from western day to day living as to be of little practical use for the average common man.

anyway just thoughts.

btw can anyone post  a  pic of a  supreme royal castle? maybe also a pic of the main grand hall.
Since this is Pettersson's Pavilion, I think we should all know what a  pavilion, or castle looks like.

paulb

I saw that photo.
I surfed the web for 30 minutes and could not locate this one castle i saw on the travel show Great Castles Of Europe.
This one castle was the most awesome and impressive of them all. Nothing compared to this one, as the arieal shot moved overhead from the helicopter. STUNNING!
It sat way high over a  river, maybe ona   isle or islnd in the river. Its been some yrs, but i do recall my impressions.
Don't try to look for, I've spent 30 minutes and could find it
The one you have, though swedish, does not fit the emotional structures and charactzational elements. Drottington is too much a representation of that power which created the hellish society  that Pettersson found himself surrounded by.
No we needa   castle that is both magnificient, yet earthly, "for the common man"
Drottnington is built by the blood and sweat of the poor.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: paulb on January 27, 2008, 01:34:21 PM
I saw that photo.
I surfed the web for 30 minutes and could not locate this one castle i saw on the travel show Great Castles Of Europe.
This one castle was the most awesome and impressive of them all. Nothing compared to this one, as the arieal shot moved overhead from the helicopter. STUNNING!
It sat way high over a  river, maybe ona   isle or islnd in the river. Its been some yrs, but i do recall my impressions.
Don't try to look for, I've spent 30 minutes and could find it
The one you have, though swedish, does not fit the emotional structures and charactzational elements. Drottington is too much a representation of that power which created the hellish society  that Pettersson found himself surrounded by.
No we needa   castle that is both magnificient, yet earthly, "for the common man"
Drottnington is built by the blood and sweat of the poor.

I agree. After I put it here, I thought at once 'this is everything Pettersson does NOT represent'. I'll remove it.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Lethevich

Quote from: paulb on January 27, 2008, 01:34:21 PM
I surfed the web for 30 minutes and could not locate this one castle i saw on the travel show Great Castles Of Europe.
This one castle was the most awesome and impressive of them all. Nothing compared to this one, as the arieal shot moved overhead from the helicopter. STUNNING!
It sat way high over a  river, maybe ona   isle or islnd in the river. Its been some yrs, but i do recall my impressions.
Don't try to look for, I've spent 30 minutes and could find it

If you describe it a little more, somebody who already knows it may be able to help.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

paulb

Quote from: Jezetha on January 27, 2008, 01:36:51 PM
I agree. After I put it here, I thought at once 'this is everything Pettersson does NOT represent'. I'll remove it.

Glad to know you have that connection to Pettersson's imagery and the pompous castle dosen;t fit.

Here i founda   german castle that I need to look at its history and design.
I think I see something interesting in this castle that may fit Pettersson's muisc.
Do i see a  Cathedreal or church within its walls? as though the castle is of a  completeness, a  place where folks can go in times of seige and trouble from enemies and have all its needs met, a  church included??