Pettersson's Pavilion

Started by BachQ, April 08, 2007, 03:16:51 AM

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Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

Quote from: Jezetha on January 29, 2008, 07:20:14 AMI am Dutch. The Scandinavian languages are the northern branch of the same family of languages; English, Frisian, Dutch and German the western. Learning a Scandinavian language isn't too difficult for a Dutchman.
Except finnish I guess - shouldn't be too lekker...

The new erato

Quote from: Wurstwasser on January 29, 2008, 10:42:58 PM
Except finnish I guess - shouldn't be too lekker...
Well, Finland is not part of Scandinavia anyway.....

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Wurstwasser on January 29, 2008, 10:42:58 PM
Except finnish I guess - shouldn't be too lekker...

Quote from: erato on January 29, 2008, 10:47:24 PM
Well, Finland is not part of Scandinavia anyway.....

It's a pity Finnish isn't a Germanic language, otherwise I could read the Kalevala in the original...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

greg

Quote from: Jezetha on January 29, 2008, 07:20:14 AM
I am Dutch. The Scandinavian languages are the northern branch of the same family of languages; English, Frisian, Dutch and German the western. Learning a Scandinavian language isn't too difficult for a Dutchman.
exactly! (so i've heard)

now, learning any of those languages if you speak English is another story (comparing difficulty)  :-X

rubio

I found the Pettersson 12 on Caprice in one of my local CD shops today. I was about to buy it, but then I saw that the CD had a scratch mark on it (not shrink-wrapped). I told this to the clerk, and it ended up I got it for free as I they did not know if it would play properly :).

And it does play properly :) (the first I hear after the 7th) and I must say this can be a real grower. It's a nice bonus that he uses the poems of Pablo Neruda - a poet I really like.

"One good thing about music, when it hits- you feel no pain" Bob Marley

Ephemerid

When I get home this evening, I'm downloading this:



Symphony Nos. 7 & 11.  I'm a Pettersson virgin & I'll give this at least four or five listens over the weekend.

Unfortunately, iTunes doesn't have a lot of recordings available of his, but it will be good for starters at any rate! 

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Ephemerid on February 08, 2008, 01:36:37 PMI'm a Pettersson virgin & I'll give this at least four or five listens over the weekend.

Good luck. I am not a virgin anymore, after two symphonies (6 & 7) under my (chastity) belt...  ;) I take my Pettersson in small doses. My next symphony will be No 8.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

greg

Quote from: Ephemerid on February 08, 2008, 01:36:37 PM
When I get home this evening, I'm downloading this:



Symphony Nos. 7 & 11.  I'm a Pettersson virgin & I'll give this at least four or five listens over the weekend.

Unfortunately, iTunes doesn't have a lot of recordings available of his, but it will be good for starters at any rate! 
Yep, if you want to start with Pettersson, that's the one!

Ephemerid

oh, man!!!  I just finished with No. 7!!   :o

I'm going to take a break before listening to No. 11 tonight, but all I have to say right now is that it was great and packed a lot more of an emotional wallop than I was prepared for (I was in tears in two places)-- very moving!  (if it makes me cry, then I know I've found myself some gold!)

Two things to say for now-- this symphony certainly puts him in roughly the same aesthetic area as Shostakovich-- not that Petterrson *sounds* like him per se, but I feel mood-wise he's kinda in the same sort of territory. 

Secondly, oddly enough, the Canadian band, Godspeed You Black Emperor! came to mind-- I wonder if those guys are familiar with his work?  Somehow I wouldn't be surprised...

I've got to digest this a bit more, get a better orientation about this.  I'd like to get a bit of background info on Pettersson as well. 

Thank you for your encouragement, Paul and also to Some Guy, who brought his name to my attention several weeks ago on the Talk Classical forum (I haven't seen him around here lately i don't think?). 

I want to listen to No. 7 again, but I'm going to stop, eat & then listen to No. 11.

(I was expecting it to be good, but not THAT good!)

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Ephemerid on February 08, 2008, 02:56:03 PM
Secondly, oddly enough, the Canadian band, Godspeed You Black Emperor! came to mind-- I wonder if those guys are familiar with his work?  Somehow I wouldn't be surprised...

Nice write-up! I think Paul will be very thrilled you take to Pettersson so easily! I know Godspeed You Black Emperor! through my cousin, who is a great fan...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Ephemerid

Symphony No. 11 is a bit thornier for me-- seems I may need to try a bit harder *clicking* with that one, harder for me to give any immediate first impressions.  I will will give both more listenings tomorrow.  I will resist the temptation to purchase No. 8 & 10 at least til next payday. 

Jezetha, certainly, like Shostakovich for me, this is music is music to be taken in small doses-- great music, but really dark & weighty stuff! 


paulb

#211
The 11th is like some ...ahh here the liner notes CPO comes in perfectly:

""The stormy weather

here lets see the page..crummy resolution.
Anyway key phase in these notes about the 11th is "balancing point" in the cycle. Not as stormy as the others.

Not in any way to take away from the 11th as a  very fine sym, there are no 'duds" in Pettersson, its a foreign concept. Shostakovich has "duds" as do most every composer., Pettersson does not have duds. they do not exist.

So the 11th gives those who came through the 5-10 and allows a  sort of breather...You are going to need it, so gather all the strength you can, there's much more ahead.. yeah i know the 6,8,9,10 was unreal, not to be surpassed, impossible to go beyond!
The 12th Caprice, the 13th are the most challenging of the cycle.
Its a  rare day i play either.
The 14th , 15th are nothing less in scope and textures as the ones before, 5-13, just slightly less in degree on intensity. IOW if you think the 5-13 were just about all this cycle could possibly offer, how could there yet remain 2 more symphonies to have this quality of crafting and power , after what I just experienced in 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13 ??? ::)
Not only is it possible, its for real.

Pettersson's materpieces, 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15, vc2.
There's not a  whole lot of  other 20th C composers I know of which can match this consistency in  their oeuvre.
Like maybe 8 other composers.




greg

Quote from: paulb on February 08, 2008, 05:01:50 PM
Shostakovich has "duds" as do most every composer.


7th symphony, anything past the first movement. That one seriously serious dud....

Harry

Did I tell, that I love the Pettersson Symponies very much, and I was depressed for months.
But worth it though.

paulb

Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on February 09, 2008, 11:21:56 AM
7th symphony, anything past the first movement. That one seriously serious dud....

I corrected myself, I just been listening to Shostakovich's  complete syms. Like Pettersson, very consistent quality. But IMHO Pettersson passes Shostakovich in this area of quality/consistency.

Greg, you need to relisten to Shostakovich's 7th sym. Masterpiece. Try to get the Kondrashin or Rozhdestvensky, that may change your opinion.

I hold to the PERSONALopinion that Pettersson ranks along with 8 other 20th C composers as far as consistent genius.

greg

Quote from: paulb on February 09, 2008, 12:41:39 PM

Greg, you need to relisten to Shostakovich's 7th sym. Masterpiece. Try to get the Kondrashin or Rozhdestvensky, that may change your opinion.


Actually, Rozhdestvensky is the recording I have. 1st movement I LOOOOOVEEEE but the rest is just so incredibly boring, even following along with the score doesn't help (and i tried twice!)

Steve

Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on February 09, 2008, 11:21:56 AM
7th symphony, anything past the first movement. That one seriously serious dud....

You are referring to Petersson's 7th or Shostakovich's? Certainly not the Leningrad!  ???

You should try Janssons's 7th...

Steve

Quote from: Ephemerid on February 08, 2008, 02:56:03 PM
oh, man!!!  I just finished with No. 7!!   :o

I'm going to take a break before listening to No. 11 tonight, but all I have to say right now is that it was great and packed a lot more of an emotional wallop than I was prepared for (I was in tears in two places)-- very moving!  (if it makes me cry, then I know I've found myself some gold!)

Two things to say for now-- this symphony certainly puts him in roughly the same aesthetic area as Shostakovich-- not that Petterrson *sounds* like him per se, but I feel mood-wise he's kinda in the same sort of territory. 

Secondly, oddly enough, the Canadian band, Godspeed You Black Emperor! came to mind-- I wonder if those guys are familiar with his work?  Somehow I wouldn't be surprised...

I've got to digest this a bit more, get a better orientation about this.  I'd like to get a bit of background info on Pettersson as well. 

Thank you for your encouragement, Paul and also to Some Guy, who brought his name to my attention several weeks ago on the Talk Classical forum (I haven't seen him around here lately i don't think?). 

I want to listen to No. 7 again, but I'm going to stop, eat & then listen to No. 11.

(I was expecting it to be good, but not THAT good!)


Thanks for the review! I've been itching to try out Petersson. He has many admirers on these boards. Will be downloading that album from emusic very soon!

paulb

#218
Quote from: Steve on February 09, 2008, 12:53:41 PM
You are referring to Petersson's 7th or Shostakovich's? Certainly not the Leningrad!  ???

You should try Janssons's 7th...

When i first read greg's comment, i also had to doubt if he was refering mistakingly to Shostakovich's and meant to say Pettersson's 7th.
I also was like  ???
I've heard these type comments about Bruckner, Beethoven's and especially Mahler's syms. "I love _,_,_ movements, but not the _" But never about the Shostakovich 5,7,8 syms.
For whatever reason Greg has to hold what he feels. Maybe later on he may change his opinion. But its not necessary, Greg is free to like what ever his feelings allows.

I have not heard Jansson's, there is nothing wrong with the Rozhdestvennky. Its not the recording.
I'm listening to Kondrashin's 7th right now, its been too long, I am curious to know myself how the 2,3,4 movements strike me since last listen.

Of all the comments I've read on Pettersson, the 13th has been least mentioned as to most impressive.
The 7th always takes precedence, the beautiful resolution makes everyone's day.
Then the 6,8,9 are next often mentioned.
the 13th has been the best kept secret as least for the hardcore Petterssonians its the most intense.
I can play no favs among the cycle, as all are part of The Cycle.
I am not one to say,  "I like such and such part of a work, but not keen on this part".
For me its all or nothing.
Has to strike me first note through to the very last to get my attention.
But if I were forced, by the waterboarding  ;), I'd confess the dark energy of the 13th would be, for me,  the highpoint of The Cycle. Highpoint? better to say the 'low' point. :)
Highpoint as in Mt Zion National Park mountain range.  Where one glorious peak leads to another and all are connected as One. Yet there always is one peak that stands slightly more impressive than the others.

Now do the syms of Pettersson engage me more than the syms of Shostakovich? yes



paulb

#219
I would tend to say , if one is a  Shostakovichian, one is also a  Petterssonian, even if that Shostakovichian has yet to hear a  Pettersson sym.
We are comrades in spirit.
spirit here does not mean in a  religious sense, but as Nietzsche uses the word spirit, geist

Its just a  matter of time before all the Shostakovichians join in with their fellow Petterssonians.

Ahh i just now realized both composers have 15 syms
"no, Pettersson has 16"
No, actually it is 15, ...2-16 =15 syms :) (the 1st is a  fragment?)
Hows that for seeing the connection between these 2....wait , both have TWO VIOLIN CONCERTOS :o
With both sharing a  commonality in the vc's that one is lesser to other. The 'other' vc being a  towering masterpiece for both.

Was busy reading, and the thought ocurred, why not look up their birth dates. I had my doubts if they were even close in signs..
not that i give alot of weight to the sign thing, but obviously there is something fishy about people born under a  sign and the ensuing descriptives.
Shostakovich, Sept 25,1906
Pettersson,     Sept 19, 1911
:-X