Pettersson's Pavilion

[Lethevich]

@Johan I definitely have problems appreciating the later works when I am not in a Pettersson mood. I think that it is to do with my willingness to wait for the waypoints that I enjoy so much, such as c ~28m in No.14, which leads into a gripping close for me - does this make the first half hour redundant? Possibly, if I'm not feeling generous. The main thing that I must do to convince myself of the composer's worth even when I don't want to listen to the music (yet am willing to admire it from afar) is to remember that when the music speaks to me, the composer's influences or choice of tone is irrelevent - the structure itself is vivid and alive. Beyond any grumpiness, it is what a great structural writer Pettersson is that sticks in my mind - I only require a certain psychological trigger to notice it.

It's not Pettersson alone who requires his 'baggage' to be laid aside before the music can be appreciated. Certain Romantic poets like Shelley can easily be mocked by aesthetes, but the qualities there are undeniable... The elephant in the room with Pettersson is the grimness, yet I can't imagine the music having the power it does without such measures. Also, crucially, it's not a cheap effect - from the ground-up, the music seems to be waiting for this kind of tone, from the single-span structures, to the topographic style and elemental shifts, and even the general "otherness" of the composer's setting of themes seemingly cast adrift at first, but actually very subtly connected together.

[springrite]

You are not the same person from one moment to the next.

We finally have a philosopher from Minnesota!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

You are not the same person from one moment to the next.

I think I wasn't 'myself' in those months of crisis. But let's return to Allan!

[Mn Dave]

We finally have a philosopher from Minnesota!

Derail more music threads with philosophy, I say! 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

@Sara There are passages in Pettersson that make all the 'suffering' you have to endure worthwhile. But I sometimes wish he had found a more economic way to combine grimness and pleasure (Brian springs to mind, the Symphonia Brevis, lashing and uplifting you in only 9 minutes...)

[Lethevich]

Curses, I'm halfway through my third listen of the 14th now, and somehow it's still delighting me. I often have to be in a good mood when I listen to the composer's music, but when I do find it catching alight for me, it's very uplifting and energetic - providing that I have the required surplus of positive energy to draw from.

[karlhenning]

Do I sense an ID change in the air? . . .

[Dundonnell]

Superb post surveying the symphonies, Sara

Makes me want to go back to listen to the symphonies again.....which is what a good post on GMG should do

[Mirror Image]

I forget just which of those (6-8) best impressed me, but I expect your assessment is fair (though personally I shouldn't apply the word masterpieces to them).  I'll revisit the Second Vn Cto, but honestly, the first listen bored me pert near out of my skull.  For which reason, although in principle I will listen to it again some day, I'm in no great hurry : )

Pettersson's music isn't everyday music for me. It's music I listen to when I'm a special kind of mood. I'm mainly an easy-going, happy-go-lucky kind of person and listening to Pettersson on one of my brighter days is wholly depressing. I find more joy in Berg and Schoenberg than I do Pettersson.

[Sergeant Rock]

I'd better make a showing, given how I seem to be one of the few who likes the composer's early and late works as much as the middle ones.
....

A belated thank you. You've given me incentive to tackle the cycle again.

Sarge

[Lethevich]

A belated thank you. You've given me incentive to tackle the cycle again.

Sweet! :3

Ironically the most depressing thing I find about Pettersson is not his music, but how infrequently people tend to find themselves in the mood for listening to him. I am often like that, but find most success when I try to listen to it distantly, as musical building blocks, not manic episodes

It goes without saying, but do report your eventual findings. Maybe this thread can reach the glory days of the old one. Wait, that one wasn't very glorious at times...

[AP100]

Excellent discussion. I am glad that several of you have decided to re-survey Pettersson's oeuvre.

In the recently released Pettersson documentary on BIS, Per-Henning Olsson says (at least in the English subtitles) that perhaps it is time for people to start listening to Pettersson's work from a strictly musical perspective, and to stop getting caught up in the biographical details of his life, particularly his difficult childhood. While I believe this is possible, from my biased perspective as a Pettersson fan, I think one reason why Pettersson's music turns many people off is because it just doesn't "work" in conventional ways.

Any Pettersson fan will tell you that repetition is a significant element of many of Pettersson's works. One example I would like to point out is track 6 of the CPO recording of the 9th. If you listen to this section from the point of view of a casual listener--or even an experienced classical music enthusiast who is unfamiliar with Pettersson, it is easy to dismiss this section as endless, pointless note spinning. But I personally think that one has to bear in mind the biographical circumstances of Pettersson's life when listening to his music. This particular passage is drawn out to the point of being annoying, if not maddening. But maybe this maddening repetition was a part of Pettersson's life: the endless pain and isolation he experienced? I certainly don't think that Brahms or Tchiakovsky could have gotten away with repetition the same way Pettersson does. Pettersson's music only "works" because it is Pettersson.

Another thing which I think that makes Pettersson's challenging for some listeners is that sometimes the symphonies only "make sense" after repeated, beginning-to-end, deeply attentive listening. This isn't always easy considering the length of these works. I consider myself a serious Pettersson fan, and only after close to ten listenings in my current  survey have I finally come to my own "understanding" of the eleventh.

Anyways, let me put in another shameless advertisement: please visit my blog and leave comments! I am surveying all of Pettersson's orchestral works for his 100th birthday year. I'm taking a bit of a break now because I'm preparing an audition (I hope to play Pettersson's 7th in Berlin next year!), but I'll get back to the updates next month.

http://allanpettersson100.blogspot.com/

Thanks guys!

[Lethevich]

I certainly don't think that Brahms or Tchiakovsky could have gotten away with repetition the same way Pettersson does. Pettersson's music only "works" because it is Pettersson.

The composer does seem quite willing to allow his reputation to take the inevitable critical swipe with moments like that, confident that none the less it'll be understood eventually, or at least be considered to have value despite what some consider as his obnoxious moments. A laudable attitude, really.

[Sef]

http://www.youtube.com/v/fJeu5xL_sE4

Thought you might like.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

A Swedish documentary about Pettersson. Even if you can't understand the language, you can see and hear the composer. Quite revealing, I think (answering questions with closed eyes behind dark glasses).


http://svtplay.se/v/2539063/dokumentar_vem_fan_ar_allan_pettersson

[Mirror Image]

A Swedish documentary about Pettersson. Even if you can't understand the language, you can see and hear the composer. Quite revealing, I think (answering questions with closed eyes behind dark glasses).


http://svtplay.se/v/2539063/dokumentar_vem_fan_ar_allan_pettersson

Thanks so much for posting this, Johan! Of course I don't speak Swedish, but this was kind of uncomfortable to watch. I quit watching after about 10 minutes. I didn't need to see anymore.

[karlhenning]

Dilemma. Cannot watch that while at the office. And . . . do I want to watch that when I'm at home? . . .

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Dilemma. Cannot watch that while at the office. And . . . do I want to watch that when I'm at home? . . .

Just a few minutes at home are survivable. You're a big boy now, Karl. 

[karlhenning]

Just a few minutes at home are survivable. You're a big boy now, Karl. 

Survival isn't a question, mon cher. Will I think, I should really be writing my own music instead, though . . . that's what I am considering : )

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Survival isn't a question, mon cher. Will I think, I should really be writing my own music instead, though . . . that's what I am considering : )

Oh, well, if it's a choice between old Pettersson and new Henning, choose the latter.