Most original opening of a piece of music

Diletante · March 31, 2009, 09:06:16 AM

I second Ravel's Piano Concerto in G, with the whip and the beautiful piccolo melody. And let's not forget his PC for the left hand, with the sombre contrabassoon melody, very nice!

Also, Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherezade, with the very contrasting themes.

My favorite opening of a piece is probably the trumpet solo of Mahler's 5th. Seriously entrancing.

Lethevich · March 31, 2009, 09:58:01 AM

Quote from: pjme on March 31, 2009, 05:42:08 AM
Haydn : Die Schöpfung

Yes, yes, yes! That is essentially a precursor to the opening of Rheingold...

More unoriginal answers about original openings

- Tristan, Faun & Pelléas, Rite, Mahler 9, Beethoven 3 & 9, Mozart 25 (Haydn did this kind of thing first, but the chronology is less assured), Liszt's Faust Symphony...

Kullervo · March 31, 2009, 10:00:27 AM

The opening of Martinů's 1st Symphony is also very striking — a huge minor chord that metamorphoses through a chromatic moan into a major chord. Almost like a reverse "amen".

Jay F · March 31, 2009, 10:16:51 AM

The opening "Veni" in Mahler's 8th. The first time I heard it, I had no idea there could be singing in a symphony.

Maciek · March 31, 2009, 11:09:55 AM

Luke, what is that, Tavener?

Looks like the winner so far.

Maciek · March 31, 2009, 11:17:00 AM

These musings will be completely misplaced since this is a fun thread and I'm about to say something serious but... what the heck! Anyway, I'm not entirely sure what the phrase "most original" (in the title) is supposed to mean... I see some people give their examples of "shocking", "striking", "beautiful", "terrific", "unexpected", "HOT", "brings a tear", "intense" etc. All sorts of ideas. Some of these seem to name the possible reactions to originality (shock, tears). But then, unoriginal music can elicit similar reactions (I could be "shocked" precisely because of the unoriginality of a piece...

). Some others seem like partial synonyms of the term "original" (unexpected). Others yet are superlatives only vaguely connected with originality (couldn't something be original and ugly? original and non-terrific? original and COLD? original and lacking in intensity? original and bad music? etc.). I'm trying to figure out what it really means that a piece of music has an original opening. Thank you for your time. And just so I'm not accused of completely disrupting an easy going thread:

In the "intense" category, I would also vote for Chopin's 1st Scherzo (B Minor), the "Revolutionary" Etude and Penderecki's Threnody. Polymorphia would get my vote for "uncanniest" opening.

The beginning of Szymanski's Piano Concerto is rather unorthodox. But probably still not the pinnacle.

sul G · March 31, 2009, 11:39:56 AM

Quote from: Maciek on March 31, 2009, 11:09:55 AM
Luke, what is that, Tavener? Looks like the winner so far.

Yes, you got it. The beginning of The Whale, the dictionary definition read out by a newsreader. Gradually, metronomes enter, plus hammond organ clusters and handbells....

Maciek · March 31, 2009, 11:54:36 AM

Hooray! Will that earn me an extra point in the score quiz?

Quote from: sul G on March 31, 2009, 11:39:56 AM
Gradually, metronomes enter, plus hammond organ clusters and handbells....

Well, that is making me even more certain... Difficult to top.

rappy · March 31, 2009, 12:54:58 PM

Strauss, Ein Heldenleben

Strauss, Eine Alpensinfonie

Brahms, first Symphony

!

Timmyb · March 31, 2009, 01:02:02 PM

I love the opening of The Alpine Symphony.You're lost in a mist for three minutes where you're not certain if the orchestra is still tuning up or not and then the sun rises and all is revealed in it's breathtaking splendor.

ChamberNut · March 31, 2009, 01:49:46 PM

Quote from: Timmyb on March 31, 2009, 01:02:02 PM
I love the opening of The Alpine Symphony.You're lost in a mist for three minutes where you're not certain if the orchestra is still tuning up or not and then the sun rises and all is revealed in it's breathtaking splendor.

It's fantastic. I love that beginning, and the sunrise! Well, I love the whole work, period!

snyprrr · March 31, 2009, 05:48:00 PM

most "ORIGINAL"

...this thread seems to be veering into "FAVORITE" territory. I find that most of the "original" stuff is stuff i don't really "like." I mean, sometimes the thing that catches your ear is the sound that makes you go "WTF"

Xenakis TETRAS (or MIKKA)...hmmm? I never quite got over that one.

However, the best opening of anything from anywhere HAS to be the first three minutes of Pettersson's 8th sym.!!! so there!

I hear the Schmitt Psalm opens in the "most spectacular fashion".

otherwise...why WOULDN'T I pick LvB No.5???

imperfection · March 31, 2009, 06:11:00 PM

Mahler 2
Sibelius 7
Brahms 4
Beethoven 5

Damn, they're all symphonies...

Dr. Dread · March 31, 2009, 06:12:02 PM

Has someone mentioned the obvious R. Strauss choice yet?

Frumaster · March 31, 2009, 06:23:36 PM

Quote from: Corey on March 31, 2009, 04:02:19 AM
The gorgeous "Palestrina" music at the beginning of Sibelius's 6th. Brings a tear to my eye every time.

I've never heard that one. What piece of Palestrina doe he cite?

Kullervo · March 31, 2009, 06:30:11 PM

Quote from: Frumaster on March 31, 2009, 06:23:36 PM
I've never heard that one. What piece of Palestrina doe he cite?

He doesn't. I just call it that because it recalls the texture and mood of Renaissance polyphony.

imperfection · March 31, 2009, 07:07:10 PM

Quote from: Mn Dave on March 31, 2009, 06:12:02 PM
Has someone mentioned the obvious R. Strauss choice yet?

That one, too, is original.

pjme · March 31, 2009, 09:20:25 PM

Yes, THAT sunrise has been mentioned.

How about Penderecki's first symphony : whip and flexatone?

alkan · April 01, 2009, 03:32:50 AM

Quote from: snyprrr on March 31, 2009, 05:48:00 PM
most "ORIGINAL"...this thread seems to be veering into "FAVORITE" territory. I find that most of the "original" stuff is stuff i don't really "like." I mean, sometimes the thing that catches your ear is the sound that makes you go "WTF"

Xenakis TETRAS (or MIKKA)...hmmm? I never quite got over that one.

However, the best opening of anything from anywhere HAS to be the first three minutes of Pettersson's 8th sym.!!! so there!

I hear the Schmitt Psalm opens in the "most spectacular fashion".

otherwise...why WOULDN'T I pick LvB No.5???

Yes, the thread has morphed somewhat from my original intention which was for musical beginnings with a high "WTF" rating. But since the main goal for me is to discover new stuff, people's favourites are fine too.

A question : What's so WTF about the first 3 mins of Patterson's 8th ? And the Xenakis for that matter.

I agree that we all know LvB's 5th so well that it's difficult to realize the originality of the first few bars

alkan · April 01, 2009, 04:06:09 AM

Quote from: Maciek on March 31, 2009, 11:17:00 AM
These musings will be completely misplaced since this is a fun thread and I'm about to say something serious but... what the heck! Anyway, I'm not entirely sure what the phrase "most original" (in the title) is supposed to mean... I see some people give their examples of "shocking", "striking", "beautiful", "terrific", "unexpected", "HOT", "brings a tear", "intense" etc. All sorts of ideas. Some of these seem to name the possible reactions to originality (shock, tears). But then, unoriginal music can elicit similar reactions (I could be "shocked" precisely because of the unoriginality of a piece... ). Some others seem like partial synonyms of the term "original" (unexpected). Others yet are superlatives only vaguely connected with originality (couldn't something be original and ugly? original and non-terrific? original and COLD? original and lacking in intensity? original and bad music? etc.). I'm trying to figure out what it really means that a piece of music has an original opening. Thank you for your time. And just so I'm not accused of completely disrupting an easy going thread:

In the "intense" category, I would also vote for Chopin's 1st Scherzo (B Minor), the "Revolutionary" Etude and Penderecki's Threnody. Polymorphia would get my vote for "uncanniest" opening.

The beginning of Szymanski's Piano Concerto is rather unorthodox. But probably still not the pinnacle.

Hi Maciek,

Thanks for your post, which is very welcome.

When I started the thread I was basically looking for the unusual ..... musical beginnings where the composer does something "special" or "different". To take Nielsen's 3rd symphony as an example (I hope you know it). He could quite easily have started immediately with the main theme itself and that would have been nice but quite conventional. Instead he starts with a series of dramatic blows of increasing frequency, somewhat like a volcanic eruption, and then the main theme enters. The opening is never repeated or used again .... it's sole purpose is as a very original curtain-raiser and attention-grabber.

Another example would be Haydn. He wrote (at least) 104 symphonies, most of which start with either a slow intro or just playing the first subject. One is unique in that it starts with a loud drumroll and a "Schopfung"-like slow intro .... for contemporary audiences this would be quite a shock.

LvB's 5th speak for itself, if we can cast our minds back 200 years or so to appreciate the impact. I love the solo clarinet glissando at the start of Rhapsody in Blue.

All of the above pre-supposes that the originality has a valid musical purpose and logic and that it is not a trivial device. If LvB had started his 5th symphony with "ding-ding" on the triangle, it would be disqualified ....

.... Although come to think of it, that's exactly the way that Shostakovich starts his 15th symphony

..... I hearby add this to the list !!

Most original opening of a piece of music

Kullervo

sul G

ChamberNut

snyprrr

imperfection

Dr. Dread

Frumaster

Kullervo

imperfection

pjme