Most original opening of a piece of music

Started by alkan, March 31, 2009, 01:53:25 AM

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Wanderer

Korngold's second opera Violanta has one of the most original and effectively intense openings I'm aware of. Other quite intense operatic openings are those to (Korngold's again) Das Wunder der Heliane, Zemlinsky's Eine florentinische Tragödie and Szymanowski's King Roger.

Quote from: alkan on March 31, 2009, 03:09:18 AM
For sheer originality, not to mention pure insanity, I reckon that the opening of John Cage's "Four minutes thirty three seconds" has never been bettered     ;D

Couldn't come up with anything in the music category?  :P

alkan

Quote from: Wanderer on March 31, 2009, 05:43:29 AM
Korngold's second opera Violanta has one of the most original and effectively intense openings I'm aware of. Other quite intense operatic openings are those to (Korngold's again) Das Wunder der Heliane, Zemlinsky's Eine florentinische Tragödie and Szymanowski's King Roger.

Couldn't come up with anything in the music category?  :P
Whadya mean .... Cage's masterpiece is not music ???    It's got movements, it's got a score, it's got timing  (4'33") it's got performers and an audience.   What more do you want??    Notes?   Tunes?   Rhythm?  Harmony?  Trumpets?  A Conductor?      I find it very relaxing and I often listen to it when I am sleeping ....
Yours .... appalled and shocked ...
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

karlhenning


Wanderer

Quote from: alkan on March 31, 2009, 05:57:59 AM
Whadya mean .... Cage's masterpiece is not music ???    It's got movements, it's got a score, it's got timing  (4'33") it's got performers and an audience.   What more do you want??    Notes?   Tunes?   Rhythm?  Harmony?  Trumpets?  A Conductor?      I find it very relaxing and I often listen to it when I am sleeping ....
Yours .... appalled and shocked ...

That's right! Nevertheless, I'd love to attend a "performance" in which someone from the audience (i.e. me) would push a button and play Alkan's Comme le vent through a cellphone.  8)

pjme


alkan

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 31, 2009, 06:13:42 AM
(Cage is smiling, I'm sure.)
I wonder if anyone in this forum has ever attended a live performance of 4'33" ??     It would surely be a memorable and unique experience.   And it is maybe the ONLY way for anyone to experience the composer's intentions for the listener .... I mean you could debate whether listening to a recording is a valid way of experiencing 4'33", or simply a different way (I suspect that Cage would say the latter ....).
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

Dr. Dread

Quote from: alkan on March 31, 2009, 06:22:04 AM
I wonder if anyone in this forum has ever attended a live performance of 4'33" ??     It would surely be a memorable and unique experience.   And it is maybe the ONLY way for anyone to experience the composer's intentions for the listener .... I mean you could debate whether listening to a recording is a valid way of experiencing 4'33", or simply a different way (I suspect that Cage would say the latter ....).

Do people start laughing during this?

alkan

Quote from: Wanderer on March 31, 2009, 06:16:40 AM
That's right! Nevertheless, I'd love to attend a "performance" in which someone from the audience (i.e. me) would push a button and play Alkan's Comme le vent through a cellphone.  8)
Very pleased to see that you have impeccable taste !!!
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

alkan

Quote from: Mn Dave on March 31, 2009, 06:22:45 AM
Do people start laughing during this?
John Cage speaking :   I can guarantee that the ONLY think you will NEVER hear is total silence .... not only in 4'33", but in your entire life.  Think about it   :o
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

marvinbrown


 Richard Strauss' opera ELEKTRA, the 3 opening notes echo Agg-amem-non

 Beethoven's Symphony no. 5!!  Has fate com' a'knockin' on anyone's door lately??

 marvin

Dr. Dread

Quote from: alkan on March 31, 2009, 06:31:32 AM
John Cage speaking :   I can guarantee that the ONLY think you will NEVER hear is total silence .... not only in 4'33", but in your entire life think about it   :o

Yeah, I get the concept behind it. Very zen. I just wondered if folks got the giggles.

alkan

Quote from: Mn Dave on March 31, 2009, 06:33:08 AM
Yeah, I get the concept behind it. Very zen. I just wondered if folks got the giggles.
It would be fun to attend a performance to find out.      I suspect that human nature more or less guarantees that 4'33" will always contain giggles, coughs, sniffs, shhhh'es, grunts, plus a creaking chair and a dog barking in the distance .....
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

Dr. Dread

Quote from: alkan on March 31, 2009, 06:39:27 AM
It would be fun to attend a performance to find out.      I suspect that human nature more or less guarantees that 4'33" will always contain giggles, coughs, sniffs, shhhh'es, grunts, plus a creaking chair and a dog barking in the distance .....

I'm sure my stomach would start gurgling.  ;D

Mark G. Simon

Quote from: alkan on March 31, 2009, 06:22:04 AM
I wonder if anyone in this forum has ever attended a live performance of 4'33" ??     It would surely be a memorable and unique experience.   And it is maybe the ONLY way for anyone to experience the composer's intentions for the listener .... I mean you could debate whether listening to a recording is a valid way of experiencing 4'33", or simply a different way (I suspect that Cage would say the latter ....).

I have, in a "performance" by the Great Noise Ensemble in Washington DC, in a concert devoted to modern music. The silence was so complete and so reverent, the only thing you could hear was your blood pressure and your pulse. I was tempted to say something like "come on, folks, we're supposed to be making the music. Yak it up, for heavens sake".

karlhenning

Quote from: Mark G. Simon on March 31, 2009, 06:57:51 AM
I have, in a "performance" by the Great Noise Ensemble in Washington DC, in a concert devoted to modern music. The silence was so complete and so reverent, the only thing you could hear was your blood pressure and your pulse. I was tempted to say something like "come on, folks, we're supposed to be making the music. Yak it up, for heavens sake".

The right idea; though I could see Cage smiling at the reverent silence, too.

alkan

Quote from: Mark G. Simon on March 31, 2009, 06:57:51 AM
I have, in a "performance" by the Great Noise Ensemble in Washington DC, in a concert devoted to modern music. The silence was so complete and so reverent, the only thing you could hear was your blood pressure and your pulse. I was tempted to say something like "come on, folks, we're supposed to be making the music. Yak it up, for heavens sake".
Hey, that's very interesting.   I read that Cage went into a totally insulated anechoic chamber in order to experience TOTAL SILENCE.   To his surprise, he could still hear two noises, one high and one low.     The high one was his nervous system in operation and the low one was due to his blood circulation.   This was one of the triggers for 4'33".     Another one was seeing Rauschenberg's series of totally uniform white paintings .... he was inspired to create the musical equivalent.

Hmmm .... I should have started a separate thread on 4'33" ..... we got grossly off-topic  :-\
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

Brian

Quote from: ChamberNut on March 31, 2009, 05:13:46 AM
The opening Prelude of The Ring!
Yep!

I was actually thinking of the first three chords of Dvorak's Violin Concerto in this context earlier today. I thought, when you hear those three weird notes, who else could the composer possibly be?

Beethoven's Eighth deserves a mention because the opening melody sounds out-of-order: it starts with the ending!

And also, Grieg's Piano Concerto, Berwald's Sinfonie singuliere, Janacek's Glagolitic Mass (both versions), and especially Janacek's Sinfonietta, which has the best opening and closing because they are actually the same.  ;D

Oh, and Atterberg's Symphony No 6. Usually I just listen to the first five seconds and then stop it.  ;D

alkan

Quote from: Brian on March 31, 2009, 07:32:51 AM
Beethoven's Eighth deserves a mention because the opening melody sounds out-of-order: it starts with the ending!

Hmmm .... I don't hear it that way   ???     To me it just sounds like he jumps straight in with both feet .... no preamble, just the main theme full-blast   (which I agree is quite startling !).     But starting with the ending ..... I don't get it .... can you explain more ?
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

karlhenning

Quote from: alkan on March 31, 2009, 07:22:17 AM
Hey, that's very interesting.   I read that Cage went into a totally insulated anechoic chamber in order to experience TOTAL SILENCE.   To his surprise, he could still hear two noises, one high and one low.     The high one was his nervous system in operation and the low one was due to his blood circulation.   This was one of the triggers for 4'33".     Another one was seeing Rauschenberg's series of totally uniform white paintings .... he was inspired to create the musical equivalent.

Hmmm .... I should have started a separate thread on 4'33" ..... we got grossly off-topic  :-\

Took it here.

sul G

The Whale. Marine mammal of the order Cetacea. They comprise three groups; 1) Archaeoceti......