Ding ! Dong ! The Witch Has Died.

[karlhenning]

Wagner and Debussy were beloved long before they died.

As were Schoenberg & Co.

[sul G]

I'm more than willing to admit I was wrong - just the three pieces I sampled on his website struck me as being really rather dull and unimaginative. I don't remember their names apart from Venus. Do recommend me good things, I'm more than willing to discover a superb new composer! But his statements in the initial post of his disgust me.

Try his Disklavier studies (or rather, wait for me to help you out on this....). They are the true modern successor to Nancarrow's player piano studies (Gann is one of the leading Nancarrow scholars) and have the most tremendous wit and virtuosity, exhibited in all manner of surprising and exhilarating ways. but they only work because, beneath the surface, all sorts of precise compositional skills are being practised.

As I said before, Gann is a fine musical thinker - we are all allowed our more extreme opinions (reading The Rest is Noise at the moment reminds me once again quite how repellent the views of many 20th century musical giants were at times, many times more than Gann's purely musical opinions). IMO Gann has 'proved his right' to express them in this sort of way more than most other writer I can think of, certainly more than most critics. And as I said, they need to be read in context.

[karlhenning]

. . . and context is not the friend of the pot-stirrer OP.

[Lethevich]

As were Schoenberg & Co.

Not to mention that contemporaries intent on hearing Beethoven, Mozart and Mendelssohn would've hated Debussy just as much as the same people came to hate Schoenberg...

[Homo Aestheticus]

Sarah,

Not to mention that contemporaries intent on hearing Beethoven, Mozart and Mendelssohn would've hated Debussy just as much as the same people came to hate Schoenberg...

Just as much ?     

I really believe that the contemporaries of Mozart, Beethoven and Mendelssohn would have very much liked and admired Debussy's  Prelude To The Afternoon Of A Faun.

[CRCulver]

Just as much ?     

I really believe that the contemporaries of Mozart, Beethoven and Mendelssohn would have very much liked and admired Debussy's  Prelude To The Afternoon Of A Faun.

They may have liked that piece, but that's Debussy's mature style in its infancy. Jeux is still a controversial piece.

[karlhenning]

Not to mention that contemporaries intent on hearing Beethoven, Mozart and Mendelssohn would've hated Debussy just as much as the same people came to hate Schoenberg...

Exactly. The OP fondly imagines that, had he lived in Debussy's time, he would have been a great Debussy fan.  Ha, ha, ha!

[karlhenning]

I really believe that the contemporaries of Mozart, Beethoven and Mendelssohn would have very much liked and admired Debussy's  Prelude To The Afternoon Of A Faun.

Well, there you're just playing at your Composers' Doll-House again, Eric.

[sul G]

THIS is a great Gann album...i'd recommend it to anyone who loves music.
Much much better (organic, human) than his rather still-born & mechanical sounding Disklavier studies IMO.

I know both. I play the Private Dances myself. They are great, Sentimental especially so, but the Disklavier studies are much finer IMO. Mechanical sounding? Yes, of course - that's the point! But only to the extent that Nancarrow is. But no, actually less than him - because of the vast amount of quotation and stylistic reference they include (Beethoven, Bud Powell, Terry Riley, James P Johnson, Chopin, Nancarrow himself, Tango....) they make much more audible play between what is human and what isn't; each one explores the dichotomy in new, strange and revealing ways. I find them oddly poignant and moving, in a way which Nancarrow never is.

[karlhenning]

Most interesting, Luke.

[greg]

There is nothing wrong with simplicity. It is easier to write complicated music than simple music;

Not always... I wonder who has more skill- Soulja Boy or Wagner?

[Homo Aestheticus]

Hi Culver,

Jeux is still a controversial piece.

In what way ?  According to who ?

[greg]

Hi Culver,

In what way ?  According to who ?

According to my local news, this piece is banned in my area... 

[bwv 1080]

I would agree with Kyle that listening to mediocre 18th century music is much preferable to mediocre late 20th century music, but that is not much of an argument against the best of late-20th century music

but Kyle seems to be falling for the perpetual false hope of the last 80 years of a revival of the relevance of contemporary classical music.  Truth is, the relevance of new music is an exponentially declining small tail to a distribution where the bulk of the mass remains anchored in the 19th century.  Every new composer who wants to be part of the tradition and wants his or her music performed by others is bound to some extent by the limits of 19th century instrumentation and performance practice.   There is room for only a handful of contemporary orchestral composers because the burden of competing with Mahler and Brahms for shelf space is too difficult and the majority of classical music listeners will devote only a small portion of their time and attention to new music.  While the barrier to entry for orchestral music, operas and established chamber music forms becomes higher every year as more new music enters the repertoire, the costs to self-produce have fallen to essentially nothing.  This means that the bulk of creative talent will not try the pointless exercise of competing with Beethoven for a slot on the local symphony's season but will instead self-produce , distribute and perform - like Frank Zappa, John Zorn and alot of the minimalists have.  This will make the distinctions between who is & isn't a "classical composer" become harder to define.

[Guido]

I know both. I play the Private Dances myself. They are great, Sentimental especially so, but the Disklavier studies are much finer IMO. Mechanical sounding? Yes, of course - that's the point! But only to the extent that Nancarrow is. But no, actually less than him - because of the vast amount of quotation and stylistic reference they include (Beethoven, Bud Powell, Terry Riley, James P Johnson, Chopin, Nancarrow himself, Tango....) they make much more audible play between what is human and what isn't; each one explores the dichotomy in new, strange and revealing ways. I find them oddly poignant and moving, in a way which Nancarrow never is.

Both sound fascinating from the clips I have heard on Amazon (sadly they're not on spotify). Predictably, I like the Ives inspired piece from the Private Dances, though they all sound great. Much better than what was on his website... how odd that he would not put the best of himself on his own site...

[sul G]

Both sound fascinating from the clips I have heard on Amazon (sadly they're not on spotify). Predictably, I like the Ives inspired piece from the Private Dances, though they all sound great. Much better than what was on his website... how odd that he would not put the best of himself on his own site...

They are on his website. Or they were, anyway. That's where I got them, scores and mp3s

[Joe Barron]

F*** Kyle Gann. He's great on Ives, but on the rest of it, he's snide and self-satisfied and an absolute dick. And his music's not that great, either.

[Guido]

He must have taken them down as soon as the commercial recording was available. The score is still up there.

[sul G]

He must have taken them down as soon as the commercial recording was available. The score is still up there.

well hang on in there a little while....

[Guido]

Will do! I just realised that the album also includes other pieces - so "the Ives inspired one" is actually not one of the Dances at all! Sorry for the confusion!