LvB string quartet Opus 131

Started by Herman, April 06, 2009, 03:27:02 AM

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Herman

There was a topic on the Opus 132 quartet some time ago. Why don't we do this for the C sharp minor, too?

Personally I like this quartet a lot more than the next one. The riveting solo opening and the wonderful variation movement in the middle.

I put this in the Great Recordings board, but hopefully some will want to add just some observations on the music, irrespective of who recorded this piece best.

Todd

I don't know if I can really choose between 131 and 132 - or any of Beethoven's late quartets, really - but I do like this one quite a bit.  I love the changes throughout, and I especially enjoy the Andante variations and the exhilarating Presto. 

To recordings, it's the usual suspects for me: Budpest (any recording), Vegh, and Prazak.  But I also have very fond memories of hearing the Brentano Quartet play it in concert.  If only they had a recording contract.
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Archaic Torso of Apollo

I still struggle with this piece at times. There are parts that I love, and other parts that leave me shaking my head in puzzlement.

The 5th movement drives me nuts. It makes me think of mice running frantically in a treadmill.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Mandryka

Quote from: Spitvalve on April 06, 2009, 08:23:57 AM

The 5th movement drives me nuts. It makes me think of mice running frantically in a treadmill.

Nice one ;D

That's why I like it -- because it evokes these mad images.
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dirkronk

Quote from: Mandryka on April 06, 2009, 07:14:06 AM
And the Busches capture transcendent, mystical quality  of the rest very well I think. And they have a great drive and forward momentum.

Agreed. A few years ago, while I was visiting a friend in northern California, he put the Busch version on the turntable during a vinyl-only listening session. (Older collectors will recall that U.S. Columbia held the rights to op.131 while EMI held the rights to most of the other LvB late quartets by the Busch Qt., so this was a Columbia pressing.) We had been chattering about one thing and another over all the other music we'd sampled, but when he put this on, we both shut up and just listened. At the end of side one, we flipped to side two and continued...with very little comment. And at the end of side two, we just sat for a while. As I recall, we both felt like replaying the record right then and there, but decided it might spoil the effect. But we didn't bother putting anything else on afterward--it would have been anticlimactic. Not the only version to have, of course, and it presents old-fashioned style (portamento, etc.) that won't be to everyone's taste, but this is still strong edge-of-the-seat stuff, beautifully presented, and highly recommended.

FWIW,

Dirk

ChamberNut

It took me a very long time to admire this quartet.  I really couldn't understand why Op. 131 was considered by many to be "the greatest" of Beethoven's string quartet.  I took to Op. 130 very quickly, and eventually Op. 132, but it took much longer for me to enjoy Op. 131.

Now I understand what the fuss is all about!  :) 0:)

George

The Vegh stereo version blew me away the first time I heard it. I was having some trouble getting into the Vegh and Op 131 and both of them just clicked. The opening measures are stunning.   

Mandryka

I was once in the HMV store in London and they were playing an orchestral arrangement of it, by Stokowsky I think. It sounded exactly like what you would expect. I didn't buy it, but maybe this was snobbery -- it didn't sound bad at all.

Does anyone have the record? -- is it good?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Herman

The arrangement for string orchestra was one of Bernstein's last recordings, I seem to recall.

orbital

Quote from: Mandryka on April 06, 2009, 11:46:51 AM
I was once in the HMV store in London and they were playing an orchestral arrangement of it, by Stokowsky I think. It sounded exactly like what you would expect. I didn't buy it, but maybe this was snobbery -- it didn't sound bad at all.

Does anyone have the record? -- is it good?
I do... Since it is probably still my favorite classical piece overall, I had to get it. The Allegro movements, particularly the strong finale are OK, but the slow movements are a drag and not suitable as orchestral material IMO. I wouldn't recommend it unless you are really really curious  :-\

Herman

Quote from: Mandryka on April 06, 2009, 07:14:06 AM
I think Budapest are probably the best in that opening fugue -- some of the other's make it a bit too static for my tastes.

Getting the opening right  -  with a simmering energy  -  is critical. In a way the first half of Op 131, including the variations, can be seen as a kind of prelude.

I was rather surprised to hear how good and musical the Alban Berg Qt is in 131. They take the opening at the same pace as the Budapest and the Andante is full of character  -  including funny at times.

val

I prefer the perfect balance of the Juilliard string Quartet. The fugue of the first movement sounds very clear and the variations of the Andante are very well characterized. The tempo is not too fast and the dynamic and contrasts almost ideal.

The Vegh quartet is remarkable but far from the perfection of the Juilliard. But I always felt very moved by this interpretation.

If it was not the sound, my choice would be the Capet Quartet. The articulation is extraordinary. Energy, emotion, balance, they have all. Even with this poor sound it remains one of the greatest interpretations in History of a quartet of Beethoven.

Peregrine

Quote from: val on April 08, 2009, 04:40:19 AM
I prefer the perfect balance of the Juilliard string Quartet. The fugue of the first movement sounds very clear and the variations of the Andante are very well characterized. The tempo is not too fast and the dynamic and contrasts almost ideal.

Oh yes! Which do you have, Val? This is easily my favourite:



The musicianship is astounding. I did e-mail Testament a while back, as there are a handful of LvB SQ's recorded by the Juilliard on RCA, but they have no plans to release any more. Such a shame...not that the later cycle they recorded isn't utterly marvellous of course, but that earlier recording of Op.131 and the Schubert is desert island stuff for me.
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val

QuotePeregrine
Oh yes! Which do you have, Val? This is easily my favourite.

I was referring to their recording of the complete quartets (1964/1970).

Anyway, I hope you listen to the old version of the Capet Quartet. You will be surprised with the extreme quality. And the CD also includes the best version of Cesar Franck's piano Quintet.

Herman

Speaking of the Juilliard, the funny thing is I thought their interp of 131 was a little bit sentimental and slow  - quite the opposite of what one would expect. (I'm referring to the sixties recording.)

Mandryka

Quote from: val on April 08, 2009, 04:40:19 AM


If it was not the sound, my choice would be the Capet Quartet. The articulation is extraordinary. Energy, emotion, balance, they have all. Even with this poor sound it remains one of the greatest interpretations in History of a quartet of Beethoven.

Yes -- they are good. Better than the Busch Quartet maybe. They have a sort of refinement and elegance which the Busch Quartet lacks. Not that  the Busch Quartet is crude -- it's just that they are a bit more forceful that The Capets; they stress the accents a little bit more aggressively.


And you're right to say that in their record there's beauty in the balance (I have it with Quartet 15 -- not with Frank), more so than with the Busch Quartet.   -I've always assumed that was a consequence of the recording!

I don't know that Juilliard version but I've just ordered it -- thanks for the leads.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Peregrine

Quote from: Mandryka on April 09, 2009, 05:10:52 AM
I don't know that Juilliard version but I've just ordered it -- thanks for the leads.

Jolly good. Do let me know what you think  :)
Yes, we have no bananas

Mandryka

Quote from: Peregrine on April 08, 2009, 05:13:44 AM
Oh yes! Which do you have, Val? This is easily my favourite:



The musicianship is astounding. I did e-mail Testament a while back, as there are a handful of LvB SQ's recorded by the Juilliard on RCA, but they have no plans to release any more. Such a shame...not that the later cycle they recorded isn't utterly marvellous of course, but that earlier recording of Op.131 and the Schubert is desert island stuff for me.

That's one hell of a recording -- thanks a million for putting me on to it.

Now -- any other Beethoven String Quartet records you know about of similar quality? Hearing that has made me hungry for more.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Valentino

I just managed to get hold of Hagen Quartett in op. 131.



As always they manage to say something new in Beethoven, and new is always challenging. If you can find it, there's another benefit in the "CD Pluscore" where you can (with the CD in your computer) follow the score while hearing them playing. There's a cursor, it's saved me a couple of times.
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Peregrine

Quote from: Mandryka on April 16, 2009, 05:16:59 AM
That's one hell of a recording -- thanks a million for putting me on to it.

Now -- any other Beethoven String Quartet records you know about of similar quality? Hearing that has made me hungry for more.

It's great isn't it? Glad you like it. I'd heartily recommend their later cycle they recorded, it may be a slight notch less in intensity, but still my favourite recorded cycle by a long shot. Just wish those other RCA, LvB recordings weren't sitting in a vault somewhere, as people that own the records state they are all in the same league as that Testament CD.

The late LvB set by the Smetana SQ is superb, as is basically everything they recorded... ;) I also like the late set by the Hollywood SQ on Testament, but sound is a bit agricultural. The Vegh set is nice and soulful, profoundly deep at times, but do get irked by some sloppy intonation, particularly up against the Juilliard SQ who are as tight as the proverbial duck's arse in this respect.

There's a lovely LvB Op.59/3 by the New Music SQ on Bartok records, with a rare Op.14/1 (transcription of the piano sonata). They were a SQ from the early 50's that had Claus Adam - later to be a member of the Juilliard SQ. They were a very tight ensemble, much in the Juilliard vein...

BUT, that Testament disc is rather special and would urge anyone who likes/admires SQ playing to pick it up as well as the other Juilliard/Testament discs.

See here -

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,10533.0.html
Yes, we have no bananas