Author Topic: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)  (Read 397795 times)

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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1940 on: February 20, 2022, 10:26:08 AM »
Today, starting on my Beethoven collection w/ a LOT of multiple versions that I'd like to cull out a few?  ::)

But already in trouble w/ the Cello Sonatas - just listening to a disc of each set and looking at reviews (attached for those interested) - Levin on a fortepiano, the middle two on modern instruments, and then Orkis & Hardy doing both PI and MI - there are so many excellent old and new recordings of these works that there are plenty to pick and hard to choose! - Dave :)

     

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1941 on: February 26, 2022, 10:42:15 AM »
Piano Concertos - Fortepiano Versions - own only 3 sets of these works, 2 on FPs and 1 on a modern instrument w/ Paul Lewis - today listening to Steven Lubin vs. Gottlieb Wallisch (a recent acquisition) - can I cull out one?  The Lubin concerto recordings date to 1987 w/ Hogwood - 3 Piano Sonatas were added later to 'fill out' the 3 discs - Lubin's instrument(s) is not discussed in the notes.  The Wallfisch date to 2017-2020 and the 'filler' is the Piano Concerto, Op. 61a (Beethoven's transcription of his Violin Concerto); he uses 3 different FPs (including a Conrad Graf owned by Beethoven).  Well, despite its age the Lubin recordings were quite good and decided to keep both sets (reviews attached which are scant).

As to recordings on a modern instrument, I have the Paul Lewis set done recently - could add another recording and was thinking of Murray Perahia w/ Haitink - so, any thoughts would be appreciated - there are so many options available.  Dave :)

     

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1942 on: March 07, 2022, 12:52:46 PM »
The recent Currentzis/Musica Aeterna Beethoven 9 from Athens, available for streaming here: https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/107891-000-A/beethoven-s-symphony-no-9/

Offline Maestro267

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1943 on: May 07, 2022, 06:42:58 AM »
Just finishing the Diabelli Variations for the first time. Underwhelmed by the lack of movement outside of C major for the most part. It's like Bolero over 100 years before and superexpanded

Offline Florestan

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1944 on: May 07, 2022, 06:48:14 AM »
Just finishing the Diabelli Variations for the first time. Underwhelmed by the lack of movement outside of C major for the most part. It's like Bolero over 100 years before and superexpanded

*chortle*
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1945 on: May 08, 2022, 07:30:59 AM »
Just finishing the Diabelli Variations for the first time. Underwhelmed by the lack of movement outside of C major for the most part. It's like Bolero over 100 years before and superexpanded
Were you also underwhelmed by so much G major in the Goldberg variations...? It's part of the convention that variations remain mostly in the same key, Brahms still sticks to this in his Handel variations. In fact, Beethoven experimented once with the strongest possible deviation, having each in a different key in his underrated variations op.34, but he returned to mostly home key in op.35 and op.120.

If you found the Diabellis "minimalist", i.e. with only trivial variations like Bolero or maybe Handel's Blacksmith, you might be the first person to think so.
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Offline LKB

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1946 on: May 08, 2022, 08:19:40 AM »
Piano Concertos - Fortepiano Versions - own only 3 sets of these works, 2 on FPs and 1 on a modern instrument w/ Paul Lewis - today listening to Steven Lubin vs. Gottlieb Wallisch (a recent acquisition) - can I cull out one?  The Lubin concerto recordings date to 1987 w/ Hogwood - 3 Piano Sonatas were added later to 'fill out' the 3 discs - Lubin's instrument(s) is not discussed in the notes.  The Wallfisch date to 2017-2020 and the 'filler' is the Piano Concerto, Op. 61a (Beethoven's transcription of his Violin Concerto); he uses 3 different FPs (including a Conrad Graf owned by Beethoven).  Well, despite its age the Lubin recordings were quite good and decided to keep both sets (reviews attached which are scant).

As to recordings on a modern instrument, I have the Paul Lewis set done recently - could add another recording and was thinking of Murray Perahia w/ Haitink - so, any thoughts would be appreciated - there are so many options available.  Dave :)

     

I used to own the Perahia/Haitink set, but sold it while l was unemployed and homeless a few years ago since you can't eat CDs.

As l recall, the Second and Fourth concertos were very good, not HIP but well recorded and executed.  The rest not so much, with the Emperor being the biggest disappointment.

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Offline Olias

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1947 on: May 08, 2022, 05:07:29 PM »
Piano Concertos - Fortepiano Versions - own only 3 sets of these works, 2 on FPs and 1 on a modern instrument w/ Paul Lewis - today listening to Steven Lubin vs. Gottlieb Wallisch (a recent acquisition) - can I cull out one?  The Lubin concerto recordings date to 1987 w/ Hogwood - 3 Piano Sonatas were added later to 'fill out' the 3 discs - Lubin's instrument(s) is not discussed in the notes.  The Wallfisch date to 2017-2020 and the 'filler' is the Piano Concerto, Op. 61a (Beethoven's transcription of his Violin Concerto); he uses 3 different FPs (including a Conrad Graf owned by Beethoven).  Well, despite its age the Lubin recordings were quite good and decided to keep both sets (reviews attached which are scant).

As to recordings on a modern instrument, I have the Paul Lewis set done recently - could add another recording and was thinking of Murray Perahia w/ Haitink - so, any thoughts would be appreciated - there are so many options available.  Dave :)

     

Ooooooooo I love the Lubin cycle.  It's desert island stuff for me.
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1948 on: May 08, 2022, 06:33:40 PM »
I used to own the Perahia/Haitink set, but sold it while l was unemployed and homeless a few years ago since you can't eat CDs.

As l recall, the Second and Fourth concertos were very good, not HIP but well recorded and executed.  The rest not so much, with the Emperor being the biggest disappointment.

Perahia is the only set I have and I’m not wild about the Emperor either. I was never sure how much was the music rather than the performance… very happy with the 3rd and 4th though.
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Offline LKB

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1949 on: May 08, 2022, 07:16:42 PM »
Perahia is the only set I have and I’m not wild about the Emperor either. I was never sure how much was the music rather than the performance… very happy with the 3rd and 4th though.

Yup, I misspoke, I thought the C Minor was no.2, my bad.
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Online Mandryka

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1950 on: May 09, 2022, 12:44:45 AM »
Just a snip from Daniel Chua's book on the Galitzin quartets, because it makes a point point about repetition of Bach in Beethoven which is interesting I think




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Offline Maestro267

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1951 on: May 09, 2022, 01:25:12 AM »
Were you also underwhelmed by so much G major in the Goldberg variations...? It's part of the convention that variations remain mostly in the same key, Brahms still sticks to this in his Handel variations. In fact, Beethoven experimented once with the strongest possible deviation, having each in a different key in his underrated variations op.34, but he returned to mostly home key in op.35 and op.120.

If you found the Diabellis "minimalist", i.e. with only trivial variations like Bolero or maybe Handel's Blacksmith, you might be the first person to think so.

I've never heard the Goldberg's...not a Bach fan. I'll stick with the Rzewski in the holy trinity of piano variations.

Offline hvbias

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1952 on: May 11, 2022, 05:05:51 PM »
I'll stick with the Rzewski in the holy trinity of piano variations.

You're speaking my language 8) Though I think I'd still take Diabelli Variations over People United if forced to choose. Rzewski playing it vs some performances I don't like in Diabellis would easily tip me to the latter.
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1953 on: May 11, 2022, 09:54:17 PM »
Beethoven forgot to include a whistling part for the pianist (he probably expected this as an improvisation) but Staier with his historical instrument has a (IMO silly) percussion effect in one or two variations.

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The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
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Offline Maestro267

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1954 on: May 17, 2022, 12:08:37 PM »
In a few days I'll have all the standard works in the three great cycles Beethoven is primarily known for. Having had the nine symphonies since 2007, today I completed adding the 32 piano sonatas to my collection and I ordered the last string quartet I have to complete that set of 16.

Offline Maestro267

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1955 on: May 17, 2022, 11:33:02 PM »
What are some of your favourites among the lesser-known Piano Sonatas? I've really taken a shine to No. 5 in C minor, Op. 10/1 and No. 12 in A flat, Op. 26.

Offline krummholz

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1956 on: May 18, 2022, 02:49:37 AM »
What are some of your favourites among the lesser-known Piano Sonatas? I've really taken a shine to No. 5 in C minor, Op. 10/1 and No. 12 in A flat, Op. 26.

No. 7 in D major - especially the very impressive D minor slow movement.
No. 22 in F major
No. 31 in A flat

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1957 on: May 18, 2022, 06:02:43 AM »
What are some of your favourites among the lesser-known Piano Sonatas? I've really taken a shine to No. 5 in C minor, Op. 10/1 and No. 12 in A flat, Op. 26.

Op. 26 is a great favourite. The first movement is among Beethoven’s most delightful theme-and-variations creations. If I remember correctly, it was also a favourite of Chopin.

I’m also very fond of (in no order of preference) Opp. 22, 2/3, 28 (is it considered lesser known?), 101 (again, if it can be considered lesser known), 90, 2/1 (imagine my joy when I heard it being played a few years ago at Capodimonte Museum in Naples out of the blue - there was a pianist playing a concert grand in one of the state rooms and music was echoing throughout the palace: Scarlatti, Chopin… and the finale of Beethoven’s Op. 2/1). I assume none of the magisterial last four sonatas is considered lesser-known territory. The infectiously fun last movements of Opp. 81a and 31/3 are also great favourites.

Offline Todd

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1958 on: May 18, 2022, 06:56:12 AM »
As to recordings on a modern instrument, I have the Paul Lewis set done recently - could add another recording and was thinking of Murray Perahia w/ Haitink - so, any thoughts would be appreciated - there are so many options available.


A bit late, but I suggest Oliver Schynder paired with James Gaffigan.  Superb performances with one of the best sounding pianos I've heard in a cycle.  (1920s era pianos, of different makes, often sound great for some unknown reason.)  There are many other good modern cycles, but Pollini with Abbado is very fine overall, though the Emperor with Bohm is better; Russell Sherman with Vaclav Neumann is superb; Lars Vogt and Leif Ove Andnes both deliver good cycles directing from the keyboard; and Mitsuko Uchida with Rattle is better than I initially expected, as well. 

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Offline Jo498

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Re: Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
« Reply #1959 on: May 18, 2022, 09:13:47 AM »
What are some of your favourites among the lesser-known Piano Sonatas? I've really taken a shine to No. 5 in C minor, Op. 10/1 and No. 12 in A flat, Op. 26.
If I count anything without a (nick)name except the last 3 as lesser known, make sure to try
op.2,2+3 (2+3)
op.10,1-3 (5-7)
op.14,1+2 (9+10)
op.90 (27)
op.101 (28)
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)