Started by BachQ, April 06, 2007, 03:12:18 AM
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Quote from: Jo498 on November 13, 2022, 10:57:37 PMIt's certainly a bit surprising that we had already 3 or 4 complete HIP recordings of all Beethoven symphonies 30 years ago and many more since then and other, often lesser known chamber music seems also to be covered better than string quartets. At least beyond op.18. One could assume that the weight of these works and their discography is a factor but that would apply to at least some other works as well.
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on November 14, 2022, 10:02:10 AMI guess that people aren't so receptive to PI Beethoven SQs because they think 'Haydn, Mozart PI SQs, yes, but Beethoven is modern, so doesn't need PI'. I disagree, I think the wonderful sound of gut strings in the late quartets (slow movement of Op 132 for example reminding me of viols) is a revelation. Very keen to hear a PI Op 59 set.
Quote from: Jo498 on November 14, 2022, 10:34:38 AMI couldn't be bothered to get the Mosaiques late Beethoven. I do have the Turner and Smithsonian in op.18 and Schuppanzigh with op.18/4+59/3 (unfortunately two of my least favorite Beethoven quartets). So I am personally not really missing anything but I still find it surprising that there are so few. In fact there are not that many Mozart PI string quartet recordings either, or the ones that exist (Mosaiques, Festetics) have gone out of print since years and not been reissued.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 14, 2022, 10:13:16 AMI would be very anxious to hear PI performances of the Beethoven Quartets by an ensemble other than the Mosaïques. But I can see why the justification for PI in the late quartets is not as strong as for Mozart and Haydn. One of justifications for PI is that I find persuasive is that composers were writing to take advantage of the unique sonorities of the instruments available to them, and the music will not sound as the composer expected on modern instruments, even if the modern instruments are better. By the time we get to the late quartets, you could argue that Beethoven's hearing had been so bad for so long that he was effectively writing a more abstract ensemble. That said, I do like the sound of PI stringed instruments and would love to have to option of hearing the music performed both ways.
Quote from: hvbias on November 16, 2022, 01:25:24 PMedit: Aimard gave a series of concerts/talks on late Beethoven works. He said that he didn't think audiences of the time would have found Grosse Fuge that uncomfortable, which runs contrary to what I thought/what I've read. If anyone recalls more details of these talks please share.
Quote from: Herman on November 17, 2022, 01:02:00 AMin general my feeling is the shall we say out-thereishness of the GF is sometimes overstated.
Quote from: Herman on November 22, 2022, 11:22:02 PMPretty much every major late Beethoven work pushed the envelope in some way. I mean, how fun is listening to the entire Hammerklavier sonata really?Diabelli Variations - really do we need all of them, nearly an hour long?So that's why the Grosse Fugue belongs in the op 130 quartet.
Quote from: Herman on November 22, 2022, 11:22:02 PMI mean, how fun is listening to the entire Hammerklavier sonata really?
Quote from: Herman on November 22, 2022, 11:22:02 PMDiabelli Variations - really do we need all of them, nearly an hour long?
Quote from: Madiel on November 23, 2022, 01:58:52 AMI suspect you haven't been listening to the most suitable recordings...I mean, my first album with the Hammerklavier lost me in the fugue. The second did not. It's bloody gripping.
Quote from: Jo498 on November 23, 2022, 03:43:33 AMI find op.106 slightly tougher to listen to than op.130. In both works the finale starts about 30 min. into the work but the huge slow movement is usually much longer (15-over 20 min) than any movement before the fugue in op.130, so one is already more drained emotionally and attention-span-wise and the op.106-fugue is shorter but not that much (ca. 12 vs. 15 min) and op.133 has more easily recognizable sections. But the first section of op.133 was one of the toughest listening experience I had with any pre-20th century music when I heard it for the first time.
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