Walking with Elgar

[drogulus]

     I will be exploring The Spirit of England soon, perhaps tonight if I can get the Pod ready in time for work. Also I'll be listening to The Kingdom, which is entirely new to me (except for Land of Hope and Glory).

     I can understand the impression that the 2nd symphony makes with some listeners. Some are bored by it, and some think it wanders too much. I don't think either, and I see it as emotionally conflicted. There are these streams that run through it pulling in different directions. I think it's his greatest large-scale work for orchestra, or perhaps greatest non-programmatic work, since Falstaff might be the first choice, and a more accessible one. Among the smaller scale works I'd choose the Introduction and Allegro and Sospiri. I don't know why the concertos impress me a little less than they do others. It's not that I don't recognize their quality.

[Elgarian]

I will be exploring The Spirit of England soon, perhaps tonight if I can get the Pod ready in time for work. Also I'll be listening to The Kingdom, which is entirely new to me (except for Land of Hope and Glory).

Do you mean the Coronation Ode, rather than The Kingdom? Coronation Ode is the one with 'Land of Hope and Glory in it', and it accompanies The Spirit of England on the same Gibson/SNO CD, if (as I hope) that's the one you have. Be warned - you may hate Coronation Ode, which is a 'pomp and circumstance'-style occasional piece. By contrast, Spirit of England is one of Elgar's greatest works.

I can understand the impression that the 2nd symphony makes with some listeners. Some are bored by it, and some think it wanders too much. I don't think either, and I see it as emotionally conflicted. There are these streams that run through it pulling in different directions.

I think that's a pretty accurate description of it. Elgar himself was emotionally conflicted, and it comes out to greater or lesser degrees in his music, I think. Certainly I find the second symphony a much more taxing listen than the first. Incidentally, your notion of 'emotional conflict' may well be a good approach to adopt to find a way into the violin concerto. It's full of that kind of emotional conflict, not only between the 'public' and the 'private' Elgar, but also between the two 'Windflower' themes - the conflict culminating in the 10-minute cadenza that closes the last movement, where there are moments when the very music itself threatens to expire, before it finds some kind of resolution.

[drogulus]

   

Do you mean the Coronation Ode, rather than The Kingdom? Coronation Ode is the one with 'Land of Hope and Glory in it', and it accompanies The Spirit of England on the same Gibson/SNO CD, if (as I hope) that's the one you have. Be warned - you may hate Coronation Ode, which is a 'pomp and circumstance'-style occasional piece. By contrast, Spirit of England is one of Elgar's greatest works.

     Yes, that's it. The Gibson disc is the one, too. And no, I probably won't go for the Coronation Ode, except the good bits.

   

[71 dB]

Just listened to Gibson's Spirit of England on Spotify. Not bad, althou I prefer less distant and reverberant sonics in my Elgar.   

[drogulus]

     I finished the transcoding and loaded all the new Elgar into iTunes, so it looks like I'll start listening to these tonight. It will take a few days to get a handle on so much new music all at once.

[Elgarian]

It will take a few days to get a handle on so much new music all at once.

I wouldn't hurry. It's taken me a lifetime.

[drogulus]

I wouldn't hurry. It's taken me a lifetime.

     I don't have that long.

     After spending a little time with the Coronation Ode I skipped on to something more promising. I've gotten halfway through the Kingdom and this is interesting. Was it Boult who preferred this work to Dream of Gerontius? I'm not ready to say anything like that but this is clearly a major work. I need time! Maybe a potion will help....one of those Don Preston dry ice concoctions that turns you into what you already are. 

     I think I'll start over tonight with the Kingdom before moving on to the Boult/Lyrita recording of the 2 symphonies. I've heard the clips of no. 2 on Amazon and immediately knew this was a challenger to the great Handley recording. The Spirit of England will have to wait, though I'll probably peek at it at some point.

[71 dB]

     I don't have that long.

I don't know about others but I needed 2-3 years to get a good grip about most Elgar's works.

I've gotten halfway through the Kingdom and this is interesting. Was it Boult who preferred this work to Dream of Gerontius? I'm not ready to say anything like that but this is clearly a major work. I need time! 

Yes, Boult understood the greatness of The Apostles and The Kingdom. Personally I think The Apostles the best (and the greatest piece of music ever writen), then comes The Kingdom and then Gerontius.

I think I'll start over tonight with the Kingdom before moving on to the Boult/Lyrita recording of the 2 symphonies. I've heard the clips of no. 2 on Amazon and immediately knew this was a challenger to the great Handley recording. The Spirit of England will have to wait, though I'll probably peek at it at some point.

Enjoy! 

[drogulus]

     Last night I got serious and listened to the Boult/Lyrita Symphony No. 2. It strikes me now that the one weakness in the Handley recording which I might not have caught heretofore is a blurring of detail for the sake of a narrative flow. But I say this cautiously because with this work it may not be possible to get it right in a way that doesn't sacrifice something that another interpretation usefully highlights. Boult brings out the detail in a way that doesn't seem indulgent. But you can't have everything with this symphony, which is perhaps a weakness that can be made into a strength in the rare interpretation that finds the middle way. Boult and Handley both find most of what is there in different ways. I'd encourage anyone interested in exploring this work to listen to both of these recordings for a "stereoscopic" view.
   
     

     

[71 dB]

Somehow the performances on Naxos have remained my favourite with Elgar's symphonies. It's perhaps thanks to the crisp "less reverberation" abroach of the recordings that brings the details out unblurred. I like Elder's take on the 2nd sympony too. Sinopoli is my least favorite.

[Elgarian]

A recent walk (well, more of a drive followed by a few strides, really) took me to one of the houses Elgar lived in, at Malvern:

   

This is where he composed the Enigma Variations. Dora Penny ('Dorabella' of the 10th Variation) described her first visit there:

"There was a lawn in front of the two houses divided into two parts - one had a lawn-tennis court, and there was a small tree which gave a modicum of shade on the other. The whole area was supposed to be shared  by the occupants of the two houses. There was a fine view of the hills from the front of the house, and the North Hill stood up like a huge hump and seemed a good deal closer than it really was. They had called the house Forli after the Italian painter, Melozzo da Forli, who painted angels playing instruments.

It was a hot day and on the lawn in front of the house was a small bell-tent. E.E., in his shirt sleeves, was writing at a little table.
'You can't come in here - it's private.'
Hot and stuffy too, I thought, but he seemed to like it. After luncheon he suggested a walk and we spent the afternoon on the North Hill. How lovely it was up there! The wonderful air and the view - I had never been to Malvern before."

Here's what they saw - the view from the top of North Hill:




On a subsequent visit:

"No sooner inside the door than E.E. fled upstairs to the study, two steps at a time - I after him ...
'Come and listen to this,' and he played me a very odd tune - it was the theme of the Variations - and then went on to play sketches, and in some cases completed numbers, of the Variations themselves...
[Dora is turning over the pages of manuscript here, while Elgar plays.]

Then I turned over and had a shock. No. X, 'Dorabella.' Being overcome by many emotions I sat silent when it was over.
'Well, how do you like that - hey?'
I murmured something about its being charming and rather like a butterfly, but I could think of nothing sensible to say; my mind was in such a whirl of pleasure, pride, and almost shame that he should have written anything so lovely about me."

[Sergeant Rock]

Sinopoli is my least favorite.

Sinopoli's is everyone's least favorite...except mine. My favorite actually. His is the slowest, darkest, most brooding. Suits me 

Sarge

[karlhenning]

A recent walk (well, more of a drive followed by a few strides, really) took me to one of the houses Elgar lived in, at Malvern . . . .

Beautiful, thank you.

[Sergeant Rock]

A recent walk (well, more of a drive followed by a few strides, really) took me to one of the houses Elgar lived in, at Malvern...

Thank you for the photos and quotes. Most interesting. I'll have to visit that area someday.

Sarge

[71 dB]

Sinopoli's is everyone's least favorite...except mine. My favorite actually. His is the slowest, darkest, most brooding. Suits me 

Sarge

Oh. Recently I heard Sir Malcolm Sargent's take on second (BBC Magazine giveaway courtesy of AnthonyAtletic). It's similar to Downes on Naxos but mono. 

[Klaatu]

I'm fortunate to live a few hundred yards from where dear old Elgar lies buried - as does his wife Alice, without whom it is quite possible he would have achieved nothing.

A while ago I had the Elgar/Payne 3rd Symphony turned up pretty loud, and I suddenly had the romantic notion that I hoped the old boy could hear it!

Michael Kennedy once said that Elgar's music contained not only "Englishness" but more specifically "Worcestershireness". Certainly to hear this music in these surroundings is a special delight. There is a landscape element to his music - the light around the Malverns can change quite dramatically from hour to hour, rather like the rapid changes of mood that Elgar himself was prone to, and which is reflected in many of his works such as the Second Symphony.

[DavidRoss]

Welcome to the forum, Klaatu--or should I say, "Welcome to the Earth!"

The Worcestershire landscape-and-light link is not one that had occurred to me.  It seems promising.  I'll bear it in mind next time I hear the old boy.   

[Elgarian]

There is a landscape element to his music - the light around the Malverns can change quite dramatically from hour to hour, rather like the rapid changes of mood that Elgar himself was prone to, and which is reflected in many of his works such as the Second Symphony.

Good point. There's also the point that Jerrold Northrop Moore makes about the profile of the Malverns - the irregular wave up and down and up and down again that's often echoed in the music. I agree with you that this sort of conjecture isn't merely fanciful (we know from his letters how much the woodlands around Birchwood influenced his writing of Caractacus, for example). The Malverns so dominate the landscape that they become a subliminal part of the experience for anyone who spends time in their vicinity - and of course Elgar covered pretty well every conceivable route around them on his bike.

You're a lucky chap, to live there. Please give my regards to Sir E, next time you're passing.

[Klaatu]

Hi Elgarian -

The Malverns could have an even more direct connection to EE's music than Northrop Moore suggests:

Not sure if you're aware of this, but a few years ago a Malvern businessman, Paul Plowman, put forward the suggestion that the underlying "theme" of the Enigma Variations was:

The Malvern Hills!

Specifically, Plowman claimed that the length of each variation is proportional to the height of the peaks and valleys along the Malvern Hills:

HDSP = White Leaved Oak Pass
RBT = Ragged Stone Hill
WMB = Hollybush Pass
RPA = Midsummer Camp
Ysobel = Swinyard Hill
Troyte = Hangman's Hill and the climb to British Camp
WN = British Camp and Pass
Nimrod = Pinnacle Hill
Dorabella = Perseverance Hill
GRS = The Wyche
BGN = Worcestershire Beacon
*** = North Hill

Interesting stuff, huh? Who's to say?

Personally I'm with the music critic (I forget who he was) who was adamant that he'd found a tune which, apparently, worked perfectly as the "Original Theme" of the Enigma Variations - it was:

Yesterday by Lennon & McCartney!

(And yes, I'll give your regards to Edward and Alice when I'm next passing St. Wulstan's.)

[kishnevi]

The Worcestershire landscape-and-light link is not one that had occurred to me.  It seems promising.  I'll bear it in mind next time I hear the old boy. 

Worcestershire--does this mean that Elgar was actually a rather saucy composer?

[runs for cover]