The trouble with Bruckner

[JerryS]

Prior to reading this thread I had just finished listening to Finn Mortensen's 1953 Symphony Op. 5. It's an amazing neoromantic masterpiece. Sadly, it appears to be the only work of its kind Mortensen wrote. Brucknerian with elements of Hindemith, I find it totally engaging and it would particularly appeal to lovers of Bruckner.

[asin]B0062Z20IW[/asin]

[knight66]

How have I managed to miss the Rautavaara Symphony 3. I know a few of his pieces, but not this. It is terrific. Thanks.

Mike

[eyeresist]

To my ears Kalinnikov's music is Russian through and through, couldn't be farther away from Bruckner than that.. 

We went through this in the GMG's Top Symphonies thread last year. My rec is specifically for the Friedmann performance, the best available IMO, and the word Brucknerian has been applied to it.

How have I managed to miss the Rautavaara Symphony 3. I know a few of his pieces, but not this. It is terrific. Thanks.

Y'welcome!

[Cato]

Prior to reading this thread I had just finished listening to Finn Mortensen's 1953 Symphony Op. 5. It's an amazing neoromantic masterpiece. Sadly, it appears to be the only work of its kind Mortensen wrote. Brucknerian with elements of Hindemith, I find it totally engaging and it would particularly appeal to lovers of Bruckner.

Although people may disagree with the assertion, I have always sensed some Brucknerian elements in Hindemith, who of course is usually linked to Neo-Classicism, and rightly so.

Still, Bruckner was something of a classicist himself!  Probably some Ph.D. thesis in Musicology has an analysis of Bruckner's possible influence on Hindemith.   0:)

[Karl Henning]

Although people may disagree with the assertion, I have always sensed some Brucknerian elements in Hindemith, who of course is usually linked to Neo-Classicism, and rightly so.

Intriguing! I couldn't possibly speak to it, as I've only relatively recently found my way "into the Abbey," as 'twere.

[Leo K.]

Last weekend I bought the three symphonies of Richard Wetz (CPO label) on iTunes, and imagined I was at a Wetz Festival in Erfurt. I listened to all of them, separating the symphonies by listening to the Kleist-Ouvertüre and Gesang des Lebens.

I was in epic-late-romantic-symphonic heaven all afternoon. I am looking forward to more listens of these works!

[Cato]

Last weekend I bought the three symphonies of Richard Wetz (CPO label) on iTunes, and imagined I was at a Wetz Festival in Erfurt. I listened to all of them, separating the symphonies by listening to the Kleist-Ouvertüre and Gesang des Lebens.

I was in epic-late-romantic-symphonic heaven all afternoon. I am looking forward to more listens of these works!

I have not heard these: to what degree do they qualify as heirs to the symphonies of Saint Anton?   0:)

[eyeresist]

Although people may disagree with the assertion, I have always sensed some Brucknerian elements in Hindemith, who of course is usually linked to Neo-Classicism, and rightly so.

Well, the Germans do tend to love their brass chorales - and who can blame them?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

He has already been mentioned - Franz Schmidt. His Second Symphony is rather Brucknerian, and it has a rousing brass chorale in the final movement... The performance by Neëme Järvi on Chandos is excellent.

[Sergeant Rock]

He has already been mentioned - Franz Schmidt. His Second Symphony is rather Brucknerian, and it has a rousing brass chorale in the final movement... The performance by Neëme Järvi on Chandos is excellent.

And Luisi's performance, slower than Järvi, is even more Brucknerian. Good choices, both.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Last weekend I bought the three symphonies of Richard Wetz (CPO label) on iTunes, and imagined I was at a Wetz Festival in Erfurt. I listened to all of them, separating the symphonies by listening to the Kleist-Ouvertüre and Gesang des Lebens.

I was in epic-late-romantic-symphonic heaven all afternoon. I am looking forward to more listens of these works!

Welcome to the Wetz club    It's rather exclusive. Members include me, Uncle Connie, now you, and...  Well, that's about it 

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

I have not heard these: to what degree do they qualify as heirs to the symphonies of Saint Anton?   0:)

"Whereas at the beginning it was Mozart, Beethoven and Schumann who showed him the way to his own goal, in Franz Liszt and Anton Bruckner he encountered two near-contemporaries with whom he sensed a special elective affinity without ever letting himself be completely absorbed or infected by them.... Now it would be absurd to want to deny the very direct Brucknerian influences evident in the three symphonies which Wetz composed between 1915 and 1922. Although he may have been of the opinion that he had adopted no more than the treatment of the brass from his great model, anyone familiar with Bruckner who listens for the first time to Wetz's music will immediately recognize the motivic and harmonic similarities." --Eckhardt von den Hoogen, from the CPO liner notes to the Third Symphony.

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

Not sure I quite like the word "infected," there ; )

Brass chorales . . . these go back directly to Bruckner? Well, perhaps you're right at that. The history of the mechanics of the instruments favors that period.

[Sergeant Rock]

Not sure I quite like the word "infected," there ; )

Brass chorales . . . these go back directly to Bruckner?

Wetz's brass chorales go back to Bruckner, Bruckner's brass chorales go back to Gabrielli.

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

Wetz brass chorales go back to Bruckner, Bruckner's brass chorales go back to Gabrielli.

Understood, Sarge; I was only thinking that, in the interval, trumpets in particular benefited from mechanical developments, so that the overall tone of the brass choir would have been entirely otherwise.  With the fully chromatic trumpet, you can have warm trumpet tones in their low register which would not have been at all practical in the days of the Venetian maestro.

[Cato]

"Whereas at the beginning it was Mozart, Beethoven and Schumann who showed him the way to his own goal, in Franz Liszt and Anton Bruckner he encountered two near-contemporaries with whom he sensed a special elective affinity without ever letting himself be completely absorbed or infected by them.... ." --Eckhardt von den Hoogen, from the CPO liner notes to the Third Symphony.

Sarge

Not sure I quite like the word "infected," there ; )

Karl: the answer as to why you twitch at the word is that it is from a CPO CD's notes!   

The absolutely worst liner notes ever can often be found there: my CPO Prokofiev notes at times sound like they were written by Martians on speed.   

[Karl Henning]

Funny you should say, Cato! Just to-day, I looked at the liner notes to the cpo CD of the Hartmann quartets. P.U.!

[mszczuj]

Welcome to the Wetz club    It's rather exclusive. Members include me, Uncle Connie, now you, and...  Well, that's about it 

And me.

Wetz symphonies were written simply to be the answer to this thread beginning question.

I would say that there is such thing as "Bruckner-symphony" genre. There are 14 symphonies belonging to it. 11 are by Bruckner and 3 are by Wetz.

Rott symphony is close but he developed Bruckner model in direction to future Mahler. Wetz developed Bruckner model in direction to Bruckner. Yes. And "developed" is the key word here. He was not imitator of Bruckner, he was just Anton 1.2.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Harry is another Wetz fan. And I know I shall have to listen again...