Would Polytheism Be Better For Us ?

[Brian]

See above.

Josquin used the word "subjugate."

1. to bring under complete control or subjection; conquer; master.
2.    to make submissive or subservient; enslave.

Is this the sense you meant?

[Guido]

Have we answered this problem of evil thing then once and for all on GMG's very own little forum? What was the outcome?

[Florestan]

Fine then; let's be more specific.  Let's not talk about "We", "us", "our" vs. "they", "them", "their"...; let's not talk about individuals.  Instead let's talk about oranizations, specifically a few that try to influence U.S. foreign policy:

• American Israeli Pulic Affairs Committee
• Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations
• Religious Zionists of America
• Zionist Organization of America

These organizations and others work relentlessly to foster and sustain an Amerian foreign policy that is pro-Isreali regardess of whether or not it is the interests of the U.S. or the world in general.  Their emphasis isn't on persuading the American public nearly so much as it is on lobbying members of Congress, funding members who will uncritically support Israel, and counter-funding those who will not.

Yes, that's a legitimate criticism. But lumping together all "the Jews" under the umbrella of a universal, secret, criminal conspiracy against all the rest of the world is not, unless evidence can be produced that (a) it really exists and (b) the Jews I mentioned in my previous post, or our good friend Don here, are involved in it.

[Fëanor]

Josquin used the word "subjugate."

1. to bring under complete control or subjection; conquer; master.
2.    to make submissive or subservient; enslave.

Is this the sense you meant?

With respect to U.S. foreign policy, precisely.

[DavidRoss]

Karl, a random and distinctly off-topic thought: have you ever imagined what the second movement of Rachmaninov's Second Symphony would sound like, if the opening theme played by the horns were instead the Odd Couple theme song? I have been contemplating this for several months now.  

Better yet if this were played:

http://www.youtube.com/v/xL_9zdu4iVw

[Bulldog]

Every individual is unique, until they band together in a group to subjugate other individuals, who lack the strength to defend themselves against those who act in numbers.

Give me a break.  You're always talking about group characteristics, whether or not the group is trying to subjugate others.  You pulled this crap with african-americans also, remember?

[Bulldog]

Fine then; let's be more specific.  Let's not talk about "We", "us", "our" vs. "they", "them", "their"...; let's not talk about individuals. 

No, you sure don't want to talk about the individual.  That would detract from your insisting that all members of a group are the same.

[Bulldog]

Yes, that's a legitimate criticism. But lumping together all "the Jews" under the umbrella of a universal, secret, criminal conspiracy against all the rest of the world is not, unless evidence can be produced that (a) it really exists and (b) the Jews I mentioned in my previous post, or our good friend Don here, are involved in it.

Don is not involved with any organization; he's a registered Independent.

[DavidRoss]

Don is not involved with any organization; he's a registered Independent.

Is it true that after numerological decrypting per the Kabalah, "registered Independent" translates as "Insane Anglo Warlord?"

[Brian]

Don is not involved with any organization; he's a registered Independent.

Yes, but Independent starts with I. And so does Illuminati.

Don's a member of the Illuminati!

I knew it 

[Bulldog]

Is it true that after numerological decrypting per the Kabalah, "registered Independent" translates as "Insane Anglo Warlord?"

You got that right, and it won't be long before Feanor and JdP are paying me tribute.  

[karlhenning]

Is that a dig at me??! 

Hah! You have too good a sense of humo(u)r (for only one thing).

[karlhenning]

Name one such group.

Well, there is The Henning Mob (as announced by Cuddles) . . . .

[karlhenning]

Don is not involved with any organization; he's a registered Independent.

Also an independent subcontractor to Th H M

[Josquin des Prez]

Name one such group.

Jews are such a group. So are the Muslim, or the Chinese. Those people have a far better prospect for survival then the individualist west, the only ethnic group gullible enough to buy into the absurd notion of multiculturalism.

[karlhenning]

Your mind is wandering. 'The individualist west' is not an ethnic group.  Whether it "buys into the notion" or not, it is multicultural.

Cor, you're a funny one!

[Homo Aestheticus]

Andrei, Xenophanes, Catison, Guido

I enjoyed reading your thoughtful replies.... Thank you.

Like I said, I am no longer a believer, but there really is nothing like The Lord's Prayer.

I've always liked this one:

http://www.aztlan.net/lordsprayer.htm 

[Homo Aestheticus]

Jews know perfectly well, though very few will admit, that it is their own sense of separation, their own sense of superiority, that has alienated them time and again from the indigenous populations amongst whom they live.

Does this justify the oppression they have suffered?  No, but it explains it.

Quite so, Feanor.

I live in a predominantly orthodox Jewish neighborhood (around 90 percent) in northern New Jersey and I can tell you that they very much keep to themselves. I no longer even make the attempt to greet them occasionally (i.e. friendly hellos or waving) since they rarely make eye contact, even when it's not the sabbath.... They are not interested in any sort of normal fellowship as far as I can tell.

Well, there is the power of a belief system I suppose... 

Of course it doesn't help that a good proportion of Jews tend to be intellectually/academically gifted. This just adds to their quiet assumption: "God really does favor us.... We really are special in his eyes"   

On a minor point:

Do you know what I find so astonishing about Jewish culture ?  That in the year 2009 they still continue with the UTTERLY RETARDED practice of infant circumcision. They have this belief that by snipping off the foreskin of their baby boys on the eight day that somehow they become closer to God, that God demands it. No other culture performs circumcision today with the exception of some tribes in Africa and the United States.

How anyone could not see that such a practice on an infant is not a form of assault and morally wrong is beyond me.

[Josquin des Prez]

Yes, that's a legitimate criticism. But lumping together all "the Jews" under the umbrella of a universal, secret, criminal conspiracy against all the rest of the world is not, unless evidence can be produced that (a) it really exists and (b) the Jews I mentioned in my previous post, or our good friend Don here, are involved in it.

Well, there are many different levels of criticism hurled against organized Jewry. It all depends on whether you believe in race or not. I've researched this subject extensively, and there's two current opinions regarding Jewish power. The first is the left-leaning, universalist belief that there are several Jewish organizations who, independent of Judaism as a whole, are taking advantage of their power and influence (not to mention virtual moral immunity thanks to the memory of the Holocaust) to pursuit all sorts of dishonest activities. Zionism and Israel in particular are generally the primary target for this type of criticism, and, believe or not, it is Jews themselves who often bring it about. A primary example is Norman Finkelstein.

The second point of view is the right-leaning, racialist belief that Jews are biologically different from gentiles, are more intelligent as a group (they outscore white gentiles by about 10 points on standardized IQ tests, which makes them the smartest group of people on the planet, even more then Asians, who only score 5 points above whites), have a stronger sense of ethnic cohesion (the result of an evolutionary adaptation as a nomad group) and are morally particular, that is, good and bad are rated according to what's good or bad for the Jews. Criticism from this perspective generally involves the accusation Jews tend to put their own interests above and sometimes outright against those of the nation or culture that hosts them. Professor Kevin McDonald is a primary source for this type of criticism. For example, he believes that our current immigration policies here in the states are primary the result of American Jews pressuring for them, the reason being that Jews feel more comfortable among a multicultural and multiracial environment, regardless of the destructive effects this has on the host nation. For this purpose, they have employed their superior intellect to develop theories that support their self serving goals (Marxism, Feminism, social engineering and so forth). McDonald uses the Frankfurt school as an example, particularly the works of Theodor W. Adorno such as his theory of the authoritarian personality which, according to McDonald, was used specifically to pathologize all group affiliations among gentiles. As McDonald says in his work, "everything from patriotism to religion to family – and race – loyalty are signs of a dangerous and defective authoritarian personality". At the same time, Israel is ruled by such authoritarian personalities, which is supposed to show the double standard Jews apply to themselves.

Of course, criticism from the left is only directed at certain groups, not Judaism as a whole. Indeed, in his book the Holocaust Industry, where Norman Finkelstein accuses certain Jewish organizations of tarnishing the memory of the Holocaust by running a veritable extortion racket, he is quick to add that regular Jews are too a victim of this organizations, particularly real Holocaust survivals, including Finelstein's own two parents, who have seen very little of the money which those organizations have hoarded for themselves under the pretext of reparations for the Nazi persecution. A refutation of this argument will involve the questioning of whether it is indeed only a small group of organized Jews who are the culprit when most Jews are wont of any form of criticism of what those organizations are doing. Finkelstein himself has been persecuted by powerful Jewish personalities like Alan Dershowitz to the point his career as a professor is essentially over. This despite the fact his distinction as an academician has been impeccable. Only Noam Chomsky and Raul Hilberg have been forthcoming to Finkelstein. Ironically, Chomsky has been attacked by Dershowitz too, and i'm sure Raul Hilberg himself would have as well, had he been alive today.

On the other end, the right-wing criticism of Judaism extends to all Jews, that even good, regular Jews have a strong sense of ethnic cohesion and will follow organized Jewry regardless whether their policies are designed to hurt gentiles. Criticism of this perspective would involve the argument that, while it may be true that Jews work as an organized group and sometimes they put their own interests above those of the gentiles that host them, it is also true that the Jews have contributed more to the development of the 20th century then any other group, for better and for worst. Everything about modernity reflects a Jewish point of view, and in so far as we are men of the modern world, we are all essentially Jewish.

This is, in a nutshell, the principal arguments against organized Jewry. Of course, you also have the conspiratorial fruit baskets who seem to think there is no evil or deception the Jews aren't capable of, but those can be found almost anywhere.

Now, i'm not advocating anything here, i'm just explaining the point of views i came across. I understand the mods want to maintain an air of respectability and not turn this forum into a breeding ground for "neo-Nazi" propaganda, or whatever they think it's going to happen here, so i'm not going to argue for any of those views. I wrote this post merely to show the type of ideas that circulate among critics of Judaism.

[Josquin des Prez]

Your mind is wandering. 'The individualist west' is not an ethnic group.  Whether it "buys into the notion" or not, it is multicultural.

It is multicultural now, sure, and that is why the west is dying. But the west too had strong ethnic feelings at one point. You only need to look at the history of America to see that the notion of a multicultural utopia is a recent construct. I surely don't see any wish from the Anglo-Saxon portion of America to form a multicultural state with the Indians, or the Blacks, or the Chinese, or even other European immigrants, like the Irish, or the Italians.