Recordings that you enjoy: Beethoven Symphony #9

Started by Gurn Blanston, April 26, 2009, 08:39:39 AM

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Coopmv

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 16, 2009, 06:33:12 AM
Yes, I saw that one on Amazon and was tempted. :)  But I am not wanting to have every recording of it, rather, a good representation of how different conductors approached the work. And Toscanini is indispensable in that sort of review, wouldn't you say? So I avoided the earliest recordings, which he didn't like either, and went for the earliest one that he thought was adequate. It should be here today, so I will find out soon enough! If it isn't what I expect, the one you rec'd was my next choice.  ;)


I have the Toscanini's Beethoven Symphonies.  I think it should be interesting to compare that set with the Karajan's EMI set from the 1950's ...

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Coopmv on May 16, 2009, 02:20:24 PM
 

I have the Toscanini's Beethoven Symphonies.  I think it should be interesting to compare that set with the Karajan's EMI set from the 1950's ...

Yes it would. I have the Karajan set, but not the Toscanini (never, ever been a historical recording collector). When I get that 52 9th, though, comparing it with Karajan's 55 9th should be illuminating. And of course I will, since that was my whole idea in getting them. :)

8)

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Listening to:
Royal Liverpool PO / Mackerras - Symphony #6 in F Op 68 2nd mvmt - Scene by the brook: Andante molto moto
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Coopmv

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 16, 2009, 02:39:57 PM
Yes it would. I have the Karajan set, but not the Toscanini (never, ever been a historical recording collector). When I get that 52 9th, though, comparing it with Karajan's 55 9th should be illuminating. And of course I will, since that was my whole idea in getting them. :)

8)

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Listening to:
Royal Liverpool PO / Mackerras - Symphony #6 in F Op 68 2nd mvmt - Scene by the brook: Andante molto moto

Mackerras is an excellent conductor and I really like his Complete Mozart Symphonies on Telarc, which are among the very few Telarc recordings I own and like.  I just started getting into historical recordings recently in a bigger way - I bought the entire set of Beethoven Piano Sonatas by Artur Schnabel, all of Chopin Piano Works by Alfred Cortot on Naxos Historical.  I still have the Bach St Matthew Passion by RCO and Mengelberg and Wagner Mesitersinger by the Bayreuth Festival Orchestra and Karajan to listen to.  For historical recordings, keyboard music is much more listenable.  On the other hand, symphonic works always sound thin for obvious reason ...

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Coopmv on May 16, 2009, 02:47:38 PM
Mackerras is an excellent conductor and I really like his Complete Mozart Symphonies on Telarc, which are among the very few Telarc recordings I own and like.  I just started getting into historical recordings recently in a bigger way - I bought the entire set of Beethoven Piano Sonatas by Artur Schnabel, all of Chopin Piano Works by Alfred Cortot on Naxos Historical.  I still have the Bach St Matthew Passion by RCO and Mengelberg and Wagner Mesitersinger by the Bayreuth Festival Orchestra and Karajan to listen to.  For historical recordings, keyboard music is much more listenable.  On the other hand, symphonic works always sound thin for obvious reason ...

Yes, I also greatly enjoy MacKerras' Mozart, it's my favorite modern instruments version. I also enjoy his Beethoven, Brahms and Schubert, which says a lot for him, since they are all with different bands.

Before this, my only "historical" disks that I hung on to were Casals' Bach, Mozart's Horn Concertos with / Karajan and Brain (classic performances!), and Brahms' Piano Quartet & Quintet with Serkin and the Busch Quartet. All three (4 really) of those disks are untouchable, and I got them for the performances, not the historic value. So this is an exception to my personal rule (no recordings from before I was born (1951) ;D ).

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Listening to:
Royal Liverpool PO / Mackerras - Symphony #6 in F Op 68 5th mvmt - Shepherds' song: Beneficent feelings, combined with thanks to the deity, after the the storm: Allegretto
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gurn Blanston

Well, I stretched things a bit today, since the pounding rain kept me off the golf course, and listened to 2 9ths. The 1928 version with Berlin Opera Orchestra, and the 1935 version with the WP / Weingartner. I have to admit up front that this was a more enjoyable experience than I expected. And for different reasons.

First the Fried. Have to address the sound first, I guess. There is clearly the expected static on top of everything, but I discovered that I could make it listenable by turning the volume down lower than my usual (much to my wife's delight :) ). It isn't really that bad, but I am not a lover of, nor a frequent listener to, historical recordings, so I guess I am more sensitive than most regulars would have been. The other thing is that it seems like it was bass-boosted pretty heavily, so the bass is up front, but not in a clear way, rather more thumping than anything else. But I nitpick. What can you really expect from an acoustic 1928 recording transferred from a set of 78's? In any case, the playing was really very good and the singing likewise. The surprise is that the tempi are not rushed (it is 61:16 TT, after all), they are about the same as I would hope for from a performance today. Certainly quicker than from the more self-indulgent post-WWII era! I'm going to have to give it a much closer listening and take some notes, because I detected some "not in the score" reinforcements of the instruments, particularly during the "horror fanfare" at the beginning of the 4th movement. And unless there is some sound dropout (certainly possible), the double basses were not playing their recitative in the manner that we would expect to hear it today. Other than that section though, it was a pretty standard performance, not bad at all. :)

Weingartner, OTOH, had great sound. The orchestra kicked ass, and the soloists (especially the bass, Richard Mayr) were excellent. TT was 63:18, so another brisk performance. I was delighted that Weingartner did not indulge himself in the sort of orchestral rubato that is Furtwängler's hallmark. I wasn't sure how widespread or characteristic of the period that this sort of thing was. He does, however, have the trumpets doubling the first violins in the same place that Fried does, coming out of the opening fanfare of the 4th movement, and also leading into the bass' "O Freunde..." solo. This is a holdover from the Age of Wagner & Mahler, who did this sort of thing routinely, ostensibly to help Beethoven out a little bit... ::)  In all, this is an excellent version for its time.

Next week, something a lot newer, I think. After that, back to March, 1942...  ;)

8)



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Listening to:
Concerto Köln - Rosetti Mur A28 Sinfonia  in Eb 4th mvmt - Finale: Allegro molto
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Brian

Interesting commentary, Gurn! I listened for the first time to the Hogwood today, and have to say I was let down. :( The tempi mostly worked - just not in relation to each other. The first movement was too slow to be pulse-pounding and too fast to be high-romantic drama, in a sort of stylistic netherland between the more interesting paths. The second movement was mighty fine, third movement absolutely glorious (loved it!), but although the finale started off well it got bogged down in the too-slow triple fugue. Really clear enunciation from the chorus, though not at all German-sounding; soloists were fabulous. All in all not one I'll be turning to too often, I'm afraid...

Coopmv

Here is an excellent B9 on DG by Karl Bohm.  I have had this LP for many years ...


Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Coopmv on May 22, 2009, 11:13:16 AM
Here is an excellent B9 on DG by Karl Bohm.  I have had this LP for many years ...



Coop,
Is that the 1970 recording or the 1982(?) one? I have them both on CD, but neither has this picture on the front... :)

8)
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Coopmv

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 22, 2009, 11:44:56 AM
Coop,
Is that the 1970 recording or the 1982(?) one? I have them both on CD, but neither has this picture on the front... :)

8)

It says 1970/1972 on the back of the LP cover.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Coopmv on May 22, 2009, 11:58:16 AM
 

It says 1970/1972 on the back of the LP cover.

Ah, that's the one I like of the 2. The other one, while wonderfully played, simply is too slow. TT = 79:18 :o :o

8)
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Coopmv

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 22, 2009, 12:15:43 PM
Ah, that's the one I like of the 2. The other one, while wonderfully played, simply is too slow. TT = 79:18 :o :o

8)

Gwyneth Jones was in this recording.  She is my favorite soprano for B9 ...


Coopmv

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 22, 2009, 12:15:43 PM
Ah, that's the one I like of the 2. The other one, while wonderfully played, simply is too slow. TT = 79:18 :o :o

8)

I also have a B9 by Bohm on CD but that is the 1981 recording.  I have almost 30 versions of B9 and 17 Complete Symphonies ...

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Coopmv on May 22, 2009, 12:49:14 PM
 

I also have a B9 by Bohm on CD but that is the 1981 recording.  I have almost 30 versions of B9 and 17 Complete Symphonies ...

17 complete cycles? That's a pretty good number. I don't know how many I have, probably not that many though. I do have 42 9ths though, 43 if you count the Liszt piano arrangement by Katsaris. I would have more, but it is getting difficult to find versions that are worth collecting. I'm not wanting to get just any version because it is a 9th, you know? I figure 50 is a nice number, I'll probably be able to quit then...  :-[

8)
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Coopmv

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 22, 2009, 12:54:44 PM
17 complete cycles? That's a pretty good number. I don't know how many I have, probably not that many though. I do have 42 9ths though, 43 if you count the Liszt piano arrangement by Katsaris. I would have more, but it is getting difficult to find versions that are worth collecting. I'm not wanting to get just any version because it is a 9th, you know? I figure 50 is a nice number, I'll probably be able to quit then...  :-[

8)

I think there probably are no more than 20 versions of B9 that are worth collecting in all honesty.  Beethoven works make up my second largest sub-collection by composer, only JS Bach surpasses Beethoven and by a wide margin.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Coopmv on May 22, 2009, 01:00:26 PM
I think there probably are no more than 20 versions of B9 that are worth collecting in all honesty.  Beethoven works make up my second largest sub-collection by composer, only JS Bach surpasses Beethoven and by a wide margin.

Yes, but you won't discover the 20 unless you try at least 21... :)  In any case, the 20 differs for everyone. Mine doesn't include anything from the pre-stereo age, for example, even though I have several. They aren't indispensable. You, however, may have a whole list from that era that you can't live without. A perfect example of why I didn't call this thread "20 best recordings of Beethoven's 9th".   :D

8)
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Coopmv

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 22, 2009, 01:03:48 PM
Yes, but you won't discover the 20 unless you try at least 21... :)  In any case, the 20 differs for everyone. Mine doesn't include anything from the pre-stereo age, for example, even though I have several. They aren't indispensable. You, however, may have a whole list from that era that you can't live without. A perfect example of why I didn't call this thread "20 best recordings of Beethoven's 9th".   :D

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My individual B9's include recordings by Furtwangler (2x), Karajan (2x), Toscanini, etc and also a number of SACD's.

Valentino

The Fricsay/Berliner Philharmoniker stereo #1 is quite enjoyable I must say.

Why don't we get Savall or Grossmann to do the number nine, btw?
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Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Valentino on May 22, 2009, 01:40:51 PM
The Fricsay/Berliner Philharmoniker stereo #1 is quite enjoyable I must say.

Why don't we get Savall or Grossmann to do the number nine, btw?

Yes, that's in my 20 50 too. Clearly one of the landmark recordings, IMO.

I would be delighted to hear that they had. As it is now, the only period instrument recording that I don't have is Brüggen, but I have hopes. I saw that it had actually been released as a single disk once, but it is long OOP, of course. ::)

8)

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Listening to:
Ingo Goritzki - CPE Bach Concerto in c for Oboe and Violin 2nd mvmt - Largo overo adagio
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Coopmv

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 22, 2009, 01:03:48 PM
Yes, but you won't discover the 20 unless you try at least 21... :) 

You have a point there.  The US housing bubble was not a bubble until it had burst ...

Gurn Blanston

Well, true to my word, I went well forward in time this week, to the 21st century in fact. Sticking with Central Europe still, I listened to the Budapest Philharmonic / Rico Saccani. If I understand the situation in Hungary correctly, the State supported several orchestras, and a few years ago they withdrew their support, so this lovely band is now disbanded. More's the pity. :(

This performance (live) was tightly woven with really nice work from the winds. Saccani keeps a solid tempo, perhaps a bit closer to old-style than new, but not to where it would bother either preference. I thought the Scherzo was really quite fine. The choral section was nicely done, although they nearly threw the bit at the end before he reined them in for the final bit by the soloists. All in all, a nice, enjoyable performance. :)

New versions this week:
Budapest PO / Saccani
Munich PO / Celibidache
NBC Orchestra / Toscanini (1952) finally arrived

8)


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Listening to:
Camerata Berolinensis - Hob 05 12 Trio in Eb for Strings 1st mvmt - Adagio
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)