Recordings that you enjoy: Beethoven Symphony #9

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, I can see from that cover illustration that Walter was unhappy about something.

He seems to look that way in all his photos. I assumed diverticulosis...

I gave the Karajan 63 a whirl, well, the first three movements. I enjoyed it a great deal, steers a mid course between the Toscanini and the Furtwangler. I would be interested to know whether Karajan's earlier version is more like the Toscanini.

I have always enjoyed this particular recording. Especially for the soloists and chorus. Tune in next Sunday, since I will be listening to Toscanini 52 and Karajan 55 back-to-back and trying to draw some inferences from that.

I see several here have the Solti Chicago version. I had it on LP and thought it was good, but I never replaced it on CD. How does it stand up?

I only have the 86 version, not the one from 1970 or so that is the beloved of the elite. Since it was my first CD of this work, I actually like it a lot, I think it compares well with many of the "classics" from the 60's and 70's. But hey, that's just me...



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Listening to:
Vandeville / Louchart / Rouault - Louis Jadin - Nocturne #2 in c for Oboe & Piano - Andante

[DavidRoss]

He seems to look that way in all his photos. I assumed diverticulosis...

I have always enjoyed this particular recording. Especially for the soloists and chorus. Tune in next Sunday, since I will be listening to Toscanini 52 and Karajan 55 back-to-back and trying to draw some inferences from that.

Suddenly the reason for three ex-wives becomes clear....

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, I can easily imagine that look on my own face at one time...

Suddenly the reason for three ex-wives becomes clear....

No, no, only 2 ex-wives. The 3rd has managed to hang on for 28 years and still going strong. Despite her protestations, I think she secretly adores Beethoven's music...




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Listening to:
Vandeville / Louchart / Rouault - Louis Jadin - Nocturne #1 in a for Oboe & Piano 2nd mvmt - Andantino

[Henritus]

There is no rest of the '53 recording. Walter redid just the last mvt because he was dissatisfied with that part of the '49 recording.

Q

Wow, Walter could do that? Hard to imagine any conductor pulling that stuff in modern days.

[Holden]

 

Wow, Walter could do that? Hard to imagine any conductor pulling that stuff in modern days.

I may have a claim to fame here. When the late John Wilson was remastering the early Walter cycle for M&A all he had was the complete 1949 performance and no '53 IV. As a member of rmcr he put out an appeal to anyone who had the performance with the '53 ending. By coincidence I had picked up an early Columbia Masterworks CD of this 9th with the '53 ending second hand at a store in Sydney that was already long oop. He asked me if I could send him a copy which I duly did.

At this point in time I had no idea who John Wilson was and when he thanked me and said whatever you don't have, let me know and I can get you a copy I didn't get too excited, I ws just happy to help someone out. To me he was just a regular poster on rmcr.

When I finally discovered who he actually was it was a bit too far down the track to say "Hey mate, you haven't discovered any Rachmaninov plays Beethoven hidden away in the vaults have you?"

Anyway, it's a possibility that the 4th (53) movement on that CD came from what I sent John and then again he might have got a better/different copy. It makes a good story I suppose.

[Drasko]

First the Fried..... the bass is up front, but not in a clear way, rather more thumping than anything else..., the double basses were not playing their recitative in the manner that we would expect to hear it today. Other than that section though, it was a pretty standard performance, not bad at all.

Could be result of bass tuba doubling double basses, it was pretty standard procedure in them very olden days of recording. Not that I know that it was done on that particular recording.

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks for the comments, guys. Sorry I didn't have time to get back and reply...    Drasko, it is a pleasure to see you back!   

Well, I did listen to both the Toscanini '52 and the Karajan '55 today, as promised. Both very enjoyable versions, and certainly there were some similarities in style, but I would be hard put to isolate any one of them and say "this is clearly a place where Toscanini influenced Karajan". I don't know enough about the history of conductors at that time, so it is hard to pick out influences, at least it is harder than saying "well, Furtwängler certainly didn't influence either of them!    In any case, if I was picking one for more listening, it would be the Karajan / Philharmonia. I really enjoyed the playing by this orchestra, and the conducting was more to my taste than the later versions I have heard from Karajan ('63 & '77). Plenty of con brio to go around, and really fine choral work and soloists too.



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Listening to:
Ensemble Baroque de Limoges / Quattuor Mosaiques - Hob 02 32 Divertimento (Notturno) #3 in C for 2 Lyra Organizattas 2nd mvmt - Andante

[Gurn Blanston]

Here is a 9th that I have bought but not received yet.  I have only seen this conductor's name, I don't think I have ever heard anything that he has done.  Franz Konwitschny. I got this 9th, with the Leipzig Gewandhaus:



As nearly as I can tell it was recorded in 1960.

If you are like me, you see some things and it makes you wonder. I'll be honest, I never associated the 9th with balloons, but the day before I bought the Konwitschny, I found this disk which I also snapped up really quickly, because it was a period instruments version that I had never heard of:



It is done by Le Chambre Philharmonique / Emmanuel Krivine / Choeur de Chambre Les Elements. At a guess I'd say they were French.   I should be getting them both on the same day (with luck) and once I get past the balloons I will see how they stack up. If I'm not mistaken, they should have as much contrast in style as any pair of 9th's I've ever acquired. 

Does anyone here know anything about Konwitschny?

[Drasko]

Does anyone here know anything about Konwitschny?

East-German, Czech born. Very solid old school Kapellmeister. Mostly worked in Leipzig and Dresden. Died here in Belgrade, while rehearsing Missa Solemnis. Recordings-wise I'm familiar with rather middle of the road Schumann cycle, very good Bruckner 2nd and few damn fine recordings with Czech Philharmonic (my favorite Schubert 9th and disc with Wagner Overtures). His Beethoven symphonies and some Wagner operas have been favorably regarded by collectors but I'm not familiar with either.

Here is another Beethoven 9th you probably haven't heard (just picked the links from rmcr, have no idea is it any good, LP transfer by Ward Marston)

Beethoven 9th:
Yoko Watanabe, soprano
Yonako Nagano, alto
Akihiko Fujunuma, tenor
Yoshinobu Kuribayashi, baritone
Nikkai Chorus
Yomiuri Nippon Symphony Orchestra
Hidemaro Konoye, cond.
Recorded Sept. 6, 12, 13, 1968
Transferred from LP Kenshu SK 318
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=H515AMK4

[Gurn Blanston]

East-German, Czech born. Very solid old school Kapellmeister. Mostly worked in Leipzig and Dresden. Died here in Belgrade, while rehearsing Missa Solemnis. Recordings-wise I'm familiar with rather middle of the road Schumann cycle, very good Bruckner 2nd and few damn fine recordings with Czech Philharmonic (my favorite Schubert 9th and disc with Wagner Overtures). His Beethoven symphonies and some Wagner operas have been favorably regarded by collectors but I'm not familiar with either.

Here is another Beethoven 9th you probably haven't heard (just picked the links from rmcr, have no idea is it any good, LP transfer by Ward Marston)

Beethoven 9th:
Yoko Watanabe, soprano
Yonako Nagano, alto
Akihiko Fujunuma, tenor
Yoshinobu Kuribayashi, baritone
Nikkai Chorus
Yomiuri Nippon Symphony Orchestra
Hidemaro Konoye, cond.
Recorded Sept. 6, 12, 13, 1968
Transferred from LP Kenshu SK 318
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=H515AMK4

Oh, OK, thanks for the info. I see a few recordings with the Leipzig guys, so he probably was there for a while. I suspect that I will like this version, given my taste for Bohemians anyway. We'll see.

As for the Japanese 9th, no, you can bet that's a new one! Can't wait to hear it. Thanks for the link.

[Gurn Blanston]

Yup, I have the boxset, which contains one of my favourite 6ths:



The booklet contains some interesting notes on The Beethoven tradition of the Leipzig Gewandhaus including a short piece on Konwitschny's tenure as Kapellmeister, which I would happily copy if that reissue turns to be disk only, as some of them do.

Soapy,
Thanks for that info.

By all means, if it turns out that you are right about liner notes, I would love to have them. I hate when they do that, although I suppose it's inevitable with bargain reissues.

[jlaurson]

East-German, Czech born. Very solid old school Kapellmeister. Mostly worked in Leipzig and Dresden. Died here in Belgrade, while rehearsing Missa Solemnis. Recordings-wise I'm familiar with rather middle of the road Schumann cycle, very good Bruckner 2nd and few damn fine recordings with Czech Philharmonic (my favorite Schubert 9th and disc with Wagner Overtures). His Beethoven symphonies and some Wagner operas have been favorably regarded by collectors but I'm not familiar with either.

Teacher of Heinz Fricke (now retiring MD of the WNO). And, according to Fricke, the one who told him the line that has since become almost common-place: "Have the score in your head, not your head in the score."

[Gurn Blanston]

Oh, here's another new (to me) one that I forgot to mention. It's funny because I read people writing about Karajan all the time, but I totally missed any reference to this:



Unlike most of you (apparently) I don't have the '77 or '83 (?) versions, only the '55 and '63, so this filled in the gap in his later output quite nicely. I've only had 1 go at it so far, so no solid opinion of it yet, but I liked what I heard, even though it was in the same vein as most traditional recordings.



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Now playing:
Martin van de Merwe & Jos Buurman / Horns - K 496a 487 12 Duos for 2 Horns #03 - Andante

[kishnevi]

Oh, here's another new (to me) one that I forgot to mention. It's funny because I read people writing about Karajan all the time, but I totally missed any reference to this:



Unlike most of you (apparently) I don't have the '77 or '83 (?) versions, only the '55 and '63, so this filled in the gap in his later output quite nicely.

Heh.  Not only do I not have the later versions, I don't have the 55 and 63. Nor, since I have almost a dozen recordings of the Ninth, do I have any great motivation to get it.  I have, in fact, very little Karajan at all--in Beethoven, only a set of the complete overtures and a Missa Solemnis paired with Mozart's Coronation Mass.  His style just doesn't appeal to me.

[Gurn Blanston]

Heh.  Not only do I not have the later versions, I don't have the 55 and 63. Nor, since I have almost a dozen recordings of the Ninth, do I have any great motivation to get it.  I have, in fact, very little Karajan at all--in Beethoven, only a set of the complete overtures and a Missa Solemnis paired with Mozart's Coronation Mass.  His style just doesn't appeal to me.

Can't argue with that. I don't have a lot of Karajan, certainly not more than 1 version of any particular work, but the 9th is always an exception for me in so many ways. Including this one. 3 versions! That's OTT for me! 

[Gurn Blanston]

Listened to this today, it arrived while I was on vacation so I had a new 9th (#60!) to greet my return.

Not much of a reviewer (as most of you know), but here are some impressions anyway;

This recording dates from 1960. Sound is very nice and clear, although perhaps just a bit on the thin side (didn't have the volume cranked up though so that might be unfair). The playing of the Leipzig Gewandhaus is every bit as good as I have found it to be in other recordings. The only point I would contend is the Baß recititavo in the opening of the final movement. The basses just had a bit of bother with it and it comes off muddy. The chorus and soloists were also very good. I thought that the soloists cranked up a bit more vibrato (coloratura?)than I am used to, but that might be an artifact of time and place. In any case, there was no discernible straining for the high notes as you sometimes hear in this most difficult of pieces.

While this would be classified as a "traditional" recording, I noticed a few points where the tempos were rather forward looking. For example, one of my main points of contention with some versions is that the "Turkish" section and subsequent fugue are taken either way to fast or way too slow. Konwitschny is the earliest example of a conductor who slows the march down, but doesn't go too far with it. I hope Sarge reads this and maybe has access to a copy of it too. Here is a march that we could agree on, at last! In fact, I would be hard put to name a better take on it.

All in all, a delightful surprise, since I was expecting a pretty routine performance and got a far better one than that. $5 well spent! 

Soapy was right though, not a wisp of liner note, not even very much writing on the box, just the performers names and the 4 track main tempos. Pity, really, but they don't want to give you too much for your money.



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Now playing:
Wiener Philharmoniker / Bernstein 1980 G. Jones / H. Schwarz / R. Kollo / K. Moll Vienna State Opera Chorus - Op 125 Symphony #9 in d 1st mvmt - Allegro ma non toppo, un poco maestoso

[Gurn Blanston]

 

This could be a good one.  I have bought quite a few historical recordings on ORFEO ...

Best LvB 9th I've heard by Walter so far, sadly a flawed last movement.

Q

Q,
What exactly does it mean "sadly, a flawed last movement"?  I mean, are we talking about the whole thing sucks from first to last? Or there's a couple of missed noted among the players/singers? 

I was just getting ready to pull the trigger on this disk, and I remembered that we had this conversation last year so I came and looked it up. I would quite like to have a Walter, and can't find the other one under discussion here (the 49/53), but would like to be pleased with this one if possible.

[Philoctetes]

Bernstein is easily my favorite. There's just so much joy. I've never seen anyone so happy to conduct.

[Gurn Blanston]

Bernstein is easily my favorite. There's just so much joy. I've never seen anyone so happy to conduct.

Well, as an historical document, and for the qualities that you mention, yes, it IS quite a performance. One could nitpick it to death on purely musical grounds, but I don't think that's what it's about.

[Philoctetes]

Well, as an historical document, and for the qualities that you mention, yes, it IS quite a performance. One could nitpick it to death on purely musical grounds, but I don't think that's what it's about.

Well for me it is the fulfillment of my idea of what the music is supposed to sound like. It was completely unbounded. I mean you just want to jump with him.