Recordings that you enjoy: Beethoven Symphony #9

[Gurn Blanston]

You know, I just wrote about individual interpretation in Beethoven, and I have to admit, the Furtwangler "Nazi 9th" does have a Wagnerian feel that I just completely wins me over, whether it's a bit unadherent to the score or not.

Yes, that's why I totally refrain from knocking it at all. It doesn't suit my taste, but that doesn't make it a dog turd on the sidewalk either. It is very entertaining, and the playing is a total adventure, tempo-wise.

[AndyD.]

I am not a Brucknerian, so can't comment on that. But I was modestly surprised that I enjoyed the Celi Beethoven 9th quite a lot, hadn't expected to as it is the Anti-HIP, so to speak. But really quite listenable. Go figure.

I am intrigued by this statement. Could you expand on it just a tad? Don't want to derail my own thread, but I am curious what you mean.

Oh yeah, the Celi definitely has some great qualities.

I like the Emerson's interpretation of the Grosse Fuge (it really grew on me after awhile), as well as some of their other adventures in the LvB SQ realm. I recently had the great pleasure of hearing Maria Yudina's interpretation of opus 111, and that wasn't a particularly sycophantic reading.

Yes, that's why I totally refrain from knocking it at all. It doesn't suit my taste, but that doesn't make it a dog turd on the sidewalk either. It is very entertaining, and the playing is a total adventure, tempo-wise.

I agree, except for the Gould!

[Gurn Blanston]

Oh yeah, the Celi definitely has some great qualities.

I like the Emerson's interpretation of the Grosse Fuge (it really grew on me after awhile), as well as some of their other adventures in the LvB SQ realm. I recently had the great pleasure of hearing Maria Yudina's interpretation of opus 111, and that wasn't a particularly sycophantic reading.

But didn't Yudina die in, like 1893?   I have her Diabelli's, quite a nice interpretation, and seems straightforward to me, although parsing variations is almost more than I can handle.

I agree, except for the Gould!

As a mod, I shouldn't say what I think of Gould's Beethoven. Wouldn't be proper...

[AndyD.]

But didn't Yudina die in, like 1893?   I have her Diabelli's, quite a nice interpretation, and seems straightforward to me, although parsing variations is almost more than I can handle.

Oh, you'll probably like the opus 111, trust me on this.

As a mod, I shouldn't say what I think of Gould's Beethoven. Wouldn't be proper...

 

[DavidW]

Does anyone here know anything about Konwitschny?

His Schubert 9th is one of the best that I've heard, much more rhythmically aware than even my favorite conductors.  Hope his Beethoven is worth hearing.  Not the same czech orchestra so who knows...

[Gurn Blanston]

His Schubert 9th is one of the best that I've heard, much more rhythmically aware than even my favorite conductors.  Hope his Beethoven is worth hearing.  Not the same czech orchestra so who knows...

Well, I thought it was....   No, not Czechs, but the Leipzig Gewandhaus anyway, an orchestra that I have a lot of respect for even under lesser conductors.

Who did he do the Schubert 9 with? Czech PO??  Sounds interesting if available. 

Today I am spinning the NYPO / Bernstein 9th for the first time. I had read a bunch of "oh, that one sucks" comments about it, but I haven't found that true at all. Other than a couple of peculiarities with the male soloists, I've found it most enjoyable. Glad I got it, it balances out the WP version tempo-wise...



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Now playing:
NYPO \ Bernstein \ Martina Arroyo \ Regina Sarfaty \ Nicholas di Virgilio \ Norman Scott - Op 125 Symphony #9 in d 4th mvmt pt 2 - Presto - Rezitativo - "O Freunde, nicht diese Tone!" - Allegro assai

[Drasko]

Who did he do the Schubert 9 with? Czech PO??  Sounds interesting if available. 

Well, I thought it was.... I think it is out of print, but I know Andre has it.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, I thought it was.... I think it is out of print, but I know Andre has it.

Don't know how I missed this, probably wasn't around when the thread was active...   Yes, I see. Well, I bet I can find it here and there. Bubbly is good.



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Now playing:
Fritz Kreisler & Franz Rupp - Op 047 Sonata #9 in A for Violin & Piano 1st mvmt - Adagio sostenuto - Presto

[ccar]

There are so many beautiful recordings of Beethoven Ninth. And as always we can go on discussing which were the most perfectly recorded or the more faithful to the composer's "intent". 

But contrary to many musicological arguments, I believe that in any musical performance, as an unique listening and personal experience, we may be able to hear and feel more than a "well played" and "historically faithful" performance. Particularly in this kind of timeless mythical masterpieces, we may expect something more special and unique, like a musical evocation of our symbolic remembrances or even some personal transforming experience.  And in this more searching spirit, recordings like the Furtwangler 1942, 1951 or 1954 Ninths do have, although differently, that special edge of tension and symbolic exaltation some of us may still need and look for. 

Looking at so many interesting suggestions of Beethoven Ninths in this thread I also noticed some references to Hermann Abendroth. He is probably one of the most underrated conductors. For me his various recordings of the Ninth (like his other Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner, ...) include some of the most interesting and expressive readings.

There are at least 7 recordings of Beethoven Ninth by Abendroth - 7 Apr 1943 SO-Stockholm; 11 June 1950 RSOL-Leipzig; 31 Dec 1950 RSOB-Leipzig; 9 Jun 1951 CSO- Prague; 29 June 1951 RSOL-Leipzig; 18 Jan 1952 RSOL-Prague; 6 Jan 1953 RSOL-Leipzig .

For a first try of the Ninth by Abendroth I would recommend the more easily available (with good sound) Leipzig June 1951 (Berlin Classics). But if we want to explore further we shouldn't forget some of his other very individual and intense readings like the RSOL 1953 (Arlecchino) or the RSOB 1950 (Tahra).

[Gurn Blanston]

ccar,
Thanks for the interesting post. I hadn't thought about Abendroth, mainly because I don't know his work (and I am not into historical recordings as many here know). That said, your advocacy prods me enough to go shopping. It will take more than a trip to Amazon, I'm afraid, for this one. They only had this one, which is the RSO/Leipzig, but not the one you mentioned on BC. And it is temporarily out of stock. That's OK, anything worth having is deserving of the hunt. I can afford to be patient with the 9th, since I have 65 to choose from right now...

Your bigger point, about the appeal of certain recordings for personal reasons, is undeniable. The historical aspect of Furtwängler's wartime and Bayreuth recordings stems as much from the where and when as it does from the who, IMO. What I have read and experienced has told me that there are 2 major 'schools' of listener, who are particularly polarized in this work. When you take it down to the very basic elements of belief, they come out very simply; there are those who believe that Beethoven had far greater aspirations for his work than merely a symphony in d minor, and those who don't believe that. Some are firmly in one camp or another. Most are somewhere in between. If you amuse yourself sometime by reading the reviews on Amazon (who are not professional reviewers) you can spot this immediately. Anyway, I am in the "not" camp, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying a bit of a thrill from time to time with a Furt or a Bernstein.

Regards,



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Now playing:
Fritz Kreisler & Franz Rupp - Op 096 Sonata #10 in G for Violin & Piano 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato

[Drasko]

It will take more than a trip to Amazon, I'm afraid, for this one. They only had this one,

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphony-No-9-L-V/dp/B00007M859

[Gurn Blanston]

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphony-No-9-L-V/dp/B00007M859

Huh. I searched "Abendroth + Beethoven"  and that certainly didn't come up. I hate when that happens...



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Now playing:
Fritz Kreisler & Franz Rupp - Op 096 Sonata #10 in G for Violin & Piano 4th mvmt - Poco allegretto

[DavidW]

Vanska/Minnesota's performance for proms in the Royal Albert Hall was partially played on NPR's performance today.  If anyone wants to catch it, check here-- http://performancetoday.publicradio.org/?year=2010&month=9&day=24

[karlhenning]

. . . When you take it down to the very basic elements of belief, they come out very simply; there are those who believe that Beethoven had far greater aspirations for his work than merely a symphony in d minor, and those who don't believe that. Some are firmly in one camp or another. Most are somewhere in between. If you amuse yourself sometime by reading the reviews on Amazon (who are not professional reviewers) you can spot this immediately. Anyway, I am in the "not" camp, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying a bit of a thrill from time to time with a Furt or a Bernstein.

Regards,

Hmm. And yet, just as I read the score, it strikes me as more than "merely a symphony in d minor." Id be interested in your further thoughts on the matter, Gurn.

[Gurn Blanston]

Hmm. And yet, just as I read the score, it strikes me as more than "merely a symphony in d minor." Id be interested in your further thoughts on the matter, Gurn.

Well, in the 21st century, nearly 200 years after he began to compose it, Beethoven's 9th is probably the most well-known piece of orchestral music in the Western tradition. It is played worldwide, and is the number 1 work as far away from Vienna as Japan. It is the national anthem of Europe. It has been used as a political tool nearly since its beginnings. The Nazis used it as a symbol of German culture. The Allies used it as an anti-Nazi propaganda tool. It has been assigned so many different meanings that they are hard to keep track of without a book... oh wait, I have one! It has a cool picture of Beethoven by Andy Warhol on the cover.

Anyway, my only point I was making is that when Beethoven was composing this work, thoughts of this outcome weren't driving him on. He had been made an offer by the Philharmonic Society of London for a symphony at a good price. He had also (the Romantic at heart) been enamored of a poem by Schiller back in 1790 or so and wanted to set it to music. His art had finally reached a point where it was up for that challenge.

I'm not saying that it isn't an extraordinary work, you know already that I am modestly obsessive about it. I'm saying that Beethoven wrote, for his own reasons, a symphony in d minor that was a cut above the rest. But all the baggage that this work carries with it is not Beethoven or anything to do with him. 200 years down the line, we are still talking about it, listening to it, having our passions stirred by it. I don't think that was part of Louie's master plan.



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Now playing:
Les Musiciens du Louvre \ Marc Minkowski  - K 376 Ballet Music from Idomeneo

[karlhenning]

. . . I'm saying that Beethoven wrote, for his own reasons, a symphony in d minor that was a cut above the rest. But all the baggage that this work carries with it is not Beethoven or anything to do with him. 200 years down the line, we are still talking about it, listening to it, having our passions stirred by it. I don't think that was part of Louie's master plan.

Works for me, that summary ; )

[ccar]

Jascha Horenstein is one of my favorite conductors. He was not popular among the major recording labels, rarely had first-rate orchestras to work with and most of his records have less than ideal sound. Yet, I always felt he was among the few with that rare gift of imprinting to any orchestra a sense of profound intensity and musical character.

Horenstein is more widely known for his Mahler or Bruckner. Much less for his Beethoven (or his Haydn, Mozart, Brahms, Liszt, Bach, Strauss, Janacek, Stravinsky, Nielsen). But for me his Missa Solemnis (BBC Legends) is one of the most moving renditions of the work and I always explored his other Beethoven. Some months ago Doremi issued a DVD with the TV broadcast of Horenstein conducting Beethoven Ninth (French National Radio Orchestra with Pilar Lorengar, Marga Hoeffgen, Josef Traxel, Otto Wiener - 31 Oct 1963). This performance was already issued in CD (Music and Arts) with much better sound than in the more recent DVD - but with the image broadcast we now have the rare occasion of seeing the famous magnetism of Horenstein – his hypnotic eyes and face expressions seem more clear and intense than his precise but sparse gestures.       
     
There is also an earlier studio recording of the Beethoven Ninth by Horenstein with the Pro Musica Symphony Vienna and Wilma Lipp, Julius Patzak, Elizabeth Hoengen and Otto Wiener (1956 – Vox). The sound is very dry (the Vox Legends CD mono remastering is preferable to a fake stereo one) but the performance keeps an amazing tension from the beginning to the very end. Personally I am more captivated by the freshness and intensity of the live French performance, particularly if we combine the CD M&A sound with the magical live images of Horenstein. 

[Gurn Blanston]

In responding to input I get on this thread, sometimes I do things for no apparent reason and get a result which differs from my expectations. This is one of those times.

A recurrent recommendation is "Barenboim" with nothing modifying it. So I had gotten a disk which is dated 2000, although that might not be recording date, maybe just release date. As it happens, the liner notes and all the packaging are in Spanish, but it is certainly Berlin Staatskapelle / Barenboim and the soloists are Soile Isokoski, Rosemarie Lang, Robert Gambill & René Pape. And they do a lovely job.

So then I saw an advert for Berlin Staatskapelle / Barenboim, but it was on Erato (which at the time wasn't a Warner company), and the picture on the front was Beethoven's life mask (the one people always call a death mask). So I thought I would pick it up since it was cheap and "Like New". Well, the soloists on this 1992 version are Alessandra Marc, Iris Vermillion, Siegfried Jeruselem and Falk Struckmann! Obviously an entirely different version.

And you guys never told me. In future you must be more definite when you rec "Barenboim" to me else I'll find out where you live.



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Now playing:
Berliner Staatskapelle \ Barenboim 2000 - Op 125 Symphony #9 in d 4th mvmt - Presto - Allegro assai - Presto - Allegro assai

[Sergeant Rock]

And you guys never told me. In future you must be more definite when you rec "Barenboim" to me else I'll find out where you live.

I never recommended a Barenboim Ninth so I'm safe (I think  )  I assume, though, that those who did were talking about the Ninth that's packaged in the box with Isokoski, Lang, Gambill, Pape. I wasn't aware of another version but see now that it is available, and quite cheap on the Apex label.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

Sarge,
Yeah, that's the same one as this. Just a re-release apparently. I've never heard any mention that there was more than one out there. I will be doing some comparing later this week, I'm curious if 8 years made any difference in the approach. Having the same band is an unusual bonus for that sort of thing.