Recordings that you enjoy: Beethoven Symphony #9

[Opus106]

  Well, that's an oddity.

Oops! I forgot to add this ->

[Gurn Blanston]

Oops! I forgot to add this ->

Ah; now I see from whence stems the oddity.

[kishnevi]

This week, with 5"+ (13cm) of rain in the gauge since yesterday morning, no golf on the agenda! So got to listen to the 9th early times, and just now enjoying the dulcet tones of the Minnesota Chorale led by Osmo Vänskä in this first rate version from 2006:



I've read mixed reactions to this performance although I find it hard to sympathize with the naysayers on it. Universally agreed upon though (so far) is that the recording quality itself is absolutely outstanding in its sound engineering values. If you are looking for a performance from this millennium that you can happily enjoy for years to come, you would be hard-pressed to top this one.

I got that one as a single issue when I was in the midst of assembling the Zinman and P. Jarvi cycles.  I thought it was a good performance, but not good enough to motivate me to get the rest of Vanska's cycle.
Perhaps I should repair that omission?   (To be clear, I've moved on, and now have 16 sets of the symphonies, including two of which I have yet to hear a note, so I have absolutely no reason to rush to get it even now.)

[Rinaldo]

I urge anyone who likes the Munch Boston to listen to the concert made the day before the recording - obviously with the same soloists. It's available as a free and legal download on Metrognome blogspot. But beware of another Munch BSO on that same blog. It's from Munch's final concert as MD in Boston in 1962. It is not only ragged in execution but quite badly sung. The 1958 concert is almost 5 minutes faster than the recording made 1 day later  . Sound is good broadcast quality. It doen't come more volcanic than this. Absolutely hair-raising.

Great tip! Just snatched this and whoa, I'm hooked.

And while I'm here, let me add another +1 to Fricsay. 1958 seems to be a year of the Ninth.

[jlaurson]

I got that one as a single issue when I was in the midst of assembling the Zinman and P. Jarvi cycles.  I thought it was a good performance, but not good enough to motivate me to get the rest of Vanska's cycle.
Perhaps I should repair that omission?   (To be clear, I've moved on, and now have 16 sets of the symphonies, including two of which I have yet to hear a note, so I have absolutely no reason to rush to get it even now.)

Well... then don't rush. But perhaps think of getting the 4th with Vanska some time, because I truly think that that's a spectacular, ear-opening performance... the "slender Greek Maiden" turns into the "Apotheosis of Dance", to mix Schumann and Wagner in their responses to Beethoven.

[kishnevi]

Well... then don't rush. But perhaps think of getting the 4th with Vanska some time, because I truly think that that's a spectacular, ear-opening performance... the "slender Greek Maiden" turns into the "Apotheosis of Dance", to mix Schumann and Wagner in their responses to Beethoven.

Thank you; it (and the full box set) are now sitting on the wishlist.  But while looking for it on Amazon, I found the listing for the Ninth, which is apparently (on its own) OOP.  At least, Amazon US itself doesn't offer it.  But there are four Marketplace vendors who offer new copies.  Apparently the MP vendors agree with Gurn that this is an underrated treasure.

The_book_community : $87.36
Silverplatters: $109.20
any_book: $109.21
Quick_N_Easy Marketplace: $999.99

Used copies start at $19.83
But given the prices of the boxed set (approximately $32 including s/h),  it's probably just as economical to get the full set.  Or at least get the full set as a collectible,  in which case you'd only be one cent more for the full set than you would for Mr. Quick N Easy's single CD.

[Gurn Blanston]

Thank you; it (and the full box set) are now sitting on the wishlist.  But while looking for it on Amazon, I found the listing for the Ninth, which is apparently (on its own) OOP.  At least, Amazon US itself doesn't offer it.  But there are four Marketplace vendors who offer new copies.  Apparently the MP vendors agree with Gurn that this is an underrated treasure.

The_book_community : $87.36
Silverplatters: $109.20
any_book: $109.21
Quick_N_Easy Marketplace: $999.99

Used copies start at $19.83
But given the prices of the boxed set (approximately $32 including s/h),  it's probably just as economical to get the full set.  Or at least get the full set as a collectible,  in which case you'd only be one cent more for the full set than you would for Mr. Quick N Easy's single CD.

Geez, sometimes I just can't believe some of the crap I see. I paid ~$10 for that disk a couple of years ago. Those prices are ridiculous!   

Jens is right about the 4th too, it's very nice indeed. I originally got the downloads of these from eClassical.com. I added in the 9th to have the physical recording in hand. It is now available there as a flac, I'm sure. Despite you don't like downloads, I would check before paying $999. 

[Lilas Pastia]

Has ever a musical work so quadraplicated as the ninth? It's become really hard to figure which is the 'real' ninth  .

When faced (drowned) with such abundance things get so mixed up that one could (should) be forgiven for not always abiding by one's own aesthetic allegiances. The ninth challenges our conception of music. And the fact that it was written at the tail end of the Classical era and the dawn of the Romantic one do not facilitate things.

I will give the Herreweghe another turn this week. I have put it in the 'good but not inspiring' category, mainly IIRC on account of the uncathartic vocal assembly. But I may have been wrong. Nothing is more fragile than an opinion based on a single exposure 

So far my favourite ninths are from every corner: Fricsay BP, Karajan 1963 and 1977, Böhm 1972, Ansermet SRO, Spering, Munch 1958 (live, not studio) and possibly Schmidt-Isserstedt WP, Bernstein WP (not the oversentimental 1989 live happening). Even the first Solti (CSO 1972?), Cluytens BP from 1958, Böhm 1981 WP, Ozawa NPO  and a couple others. No matter what tempi, what orchestral or vocal proficiency, what counts is the conductor's burning commitment. Nothing will make that particular boat stay afloat if the captain is not ready to sail or sink with it
I wish the Markevitch Lamoureux version was available. THAT is one I'd like to add to my collection.

[Gurn Blanston]

Has ever a musical work so quadraplicated as the ninth? It's become really hard to figure which is the 'real' ninth  .

When faced (drowned) with such abundance things get so mixed up that one could (should) be forgiven for not always abiding by one's own aesthetic allegiances. The ninth challenges our conception of music. And the fact that it was written at the tail end of the Classical era and the dawn of the Romantic one do not facilitate things.

I will give the Herreweghe another turn this week. I have put it in the 'good but not inspiring' category, mainly IIRC on account of the uncathartic vocal assembly. But I may have been wrong. Nothing is more fragile than an opinion based on a single exposure 

So far my favourite ninths are from every corner: Fricsay BP, Karajan 1963 and 1977, Böhm 1972, Ansermet SRO, Spering, Munch 1958 (live, not studio) and possibly Schmidt-Isserstedt WP, Bernstein WP (not the oversentimental 1989 live happening). Even the first Solti (CSO 1972?), Cluytens BP from 1958, Böhm 1981 WP, Ozawa NPO  and a couple others. No matter what tempi, what orchestral or vocal proficiency, what counts is the conductor's burning commitment. Nothing will make that particular boat stay afloat if the captain is not ready to sail or sink with it
I wish the Markevitch Lamoureux version was available. THAT is one I'd like to add to my collection.

That is an interesting concept, André. I find myself being quite in agreement with it. I was recently accused of being much too picky in my tastes (can you believe that?!? ), but my collection of 9th's, all on its own, shows that statement in its true light. I have every one that you mention there (except the Markevitch, alas), along with such exotic wonders as NYPO/Boulez and NHK/Wakasugi. And the point is that I enjoy each of them, no matter the deviation from my personal ideal, for the fact that each has its strengths and weaknesses, and the music transcends any idiosyncrasy of the performers. There is no preconceived mold for this work that is so strong that it can't be broken, or at least cracked a bit, by some part of some performance. It's true that we each tend to favor the version which conforms most closely to this personal preconception,  but since none of them are exactly correct, and the work transcends them anyway, it simply doesn't matter. Of course, this is the reason that I called this thread "Recordings you enjoy..." instead of "Best Recording of...". Because I enjoy them all! 

[kishnevi]

Geez, sometimes I just can't believe some of the crap I see. I paid ~$10 for that disk a couple of years ago. Those prices are ridiculous!   

Jens is right about the 4th too, it's very nice indeed. I originally got the downloads of these from eClassical.com. I added in the 9th to have the physical recording in hand. It is now available there as a flac, I'm sure. Despite you don't like downloads, I would check before paying $999. 

Fear not.  I've had the Vanska 9th for a few years;  bought in Barnes and Noble for perhaps $15.  Now it's a just a question of getting the 4th alone, and risk deciding I should get the rest later on, or give in to the inevitable and get the entire set even though I've already got the 9th as a single issue.  But not before I get through those 15th and 16th sets (Blomstedt/Dresden Staatskap. and Clutens/BPO) and a bunch of other music.

[Lilas Pastia]

Cluytens and Blomstedt share a number of affinities in terms of overall conception, orchestra size, wind/ strings balances, general spaciousness  (not to be equated with slow tempi) allied to unaffected phrasing, and a definite willingness to let their orchestra's personality and culture bloom unhindered. Even though the EMI Cluytens is the older set, I prefer its translucency and bloom - except in the ninth, where the age of the recording shows some limitations.

Böhm WP and Schmidt-Isserstedt WP can be included in the same category: big, sonorous, cultivated performances impeccably and beautifully played by a great orchestra. They are the very definition of that hackneyed term, 'satisfying' in every sense. The flip side of the coin is that in some individual movements a sense of discovery, of chances taken, of rythmic urgency or surprising harmonic turns is conspicuously missing. Too comfortable, which is not a quality I associate with these works. But that is really the exception. Each of these conductors and orchestras make their point tellingly, if not obviously.

I listened to Herreweghe and was most pleasantly surprised. My reservations are exactly the same I had felt the first time around, and concern mostly the finale : slightly unalluring and underpowered solo singing, a certain slackness that borders on stasis in the slow section halfway in, and a surprisingly comfortable trot in the coda. The first movement is also slightly underpowering. What I did like - and very much so - are impeccable tempo relationships, excellent playing, superb orchestral balances, gorgeous engineering (pellucid, transparent, at once  spacious and crisp).

Overall a most uplifting and generous performance. It seems to me that his conception of the ninth is hat of a first part in three sections, followed by the choral second part. His choice of tempi in first three movements emphasize the seamlessness he tries to achieve in that orchestral first part. The 'sense of discovery, of chances taken' is not really to the fore here. Herreweghe is not a firebrand. His taste is impeccable, and he is ever the gentleman. Overall it works much better in the ninth than in his definitely understated Missa Solemnis.

[DavidRoss]

The 'sense of discovery, of chances taken' is not really to the fore here. Herreweghe is not a firebrand. His taste is impeccable, and he is ever the gentleman. Overall it works much better in the ninth than in his definitely understated Missa Solemnis.

Seconded. An apt description of Herreweghe's approach in most everything I've heard. His recordings have considerable virtues, but always leave me wanting something more.

[Lilas Pastia]

Seconded. An apt description of Herreweghe's approach in most everything I've heard. His recordings have considerable virtues, but always leave me wanting something more.

The one recording of Herreweghe I thoroughly enjoy is his Mendelssohn Midsummer Night's Dream. He may lack the rythmic succulence and gravitas of Klemperer, but he nails the pointillistic opalescence of the score and its translucent instrumentation like no other. It's a sea of magic and beauty under his direction. A *shade* too gentle, but I forgive him for what he gives us. Other than that, I still have to be moved by a Herreweghe recording. But that Beethoven comes very close.

[DavidRoss]

The one recording of Herreweghe I thoroughly enjoy is his Mendelssohn Midsummer Night's Dream. He may lack the rythmic succulence and gravitas of Klemperer, but he nails the pointillistic opalescence of the score and its translucent instrumentation like no other. It's a sea of magic and beauty under his direction.

Enticing description. I just one-clicked it.

[Gurn Blanston]

This morning's choice, after a (very) brisk round of golf, is one of the more talked about versions of the new millennium.  I'm not much of a talker about such things, but I am quite a listener, and I must say that the listening here is very nice.



Dausgaard brings out more of the individual solo parts than some other conductors, particularly in the Adagio molto e cantabile 3rd movement. I always come away from his version with a renewed appreciation for Beethoven's efforts there. Swedish Chamber Orchestra has all it takes to bring out the best in this piece. Complaints that I have heard about it being too speedy just don't ring true to me. It seems just right for the capabilities of the players, which is a fine judgment by a conductor.

[Reverend Bong]

Can I ask what the distinction is between a performance on period instruments and a HIP?

[xochitl]

HIP is applying the 'lessons' learned from period performance/research/editions using modern instruments

right? :unsure:

[Gurn Blanston]

Can I ask what the distinction is between a performance on period instruments and a HIP?

HIP is applying the 'lessons' learned from period performance/research/editions using modern instruments

right? :unsure:

<>  Type of instruments used is less relevant than are the other items in your list.

The only reason I point out in this thread that a performance is PI or not PI is so that those who are interested will know. No inference should be drawn from that as to whether the performance is historically informed. 

[Lilas Pastia]

Enticing description. I just one-clicked it.

Has it arrived? 

Back to the thread: the only 'old style' performance that coincides aesthetically with the HIP ones is the live Munch 1958 in Boston. Same forces (soloists and al) as the next day's commercial studio recording, only 5 minutes faster .  Munch has tons of passion and heart to bring to the mix. Possibly one of those 'one on' occasions... Much as I truly admire Spering and Herreweghe in the 9th, they sound slightly manicured, mechanical and calculated next to Munch's disheveled, volcanic performance.

[Gurn Blanston]

Has it arrived? 

Back to the thread: the only 'old style' performance that coincides aesthetically with the HIP ones is the live Munch 1958 in Boston. Same forces (soloists and al) as the next day's commercial studio recording, only 5 minutes faster .  Munch has tons of passion and heart to bring to the mix. Possibly one of those 'one on' occasions... Much as I truly admire Spering and Herreweghe in the 9th, they sound slightly manicured, mechanical and calculated next to Munch's disheveled, volcanic performance.

Maybe it takes the dress rehearsal situation for a conductor and performers to let their hair down so to speak, and make a relaxed, ass-kicking performance since they are doing it just for themselves. If you were driving that huge machine, what better chance to put your foot down and see what it will do!! Conceptually, I love it!