Recordings that you enjoy: Beethoven Symphony #9

Started by Gurn Blanston, April 26, 2009, 08:39:39 AM

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Leo K.

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 19, 2013, 07:07:55 AM
So, you like it then? :D

I have 2 different versions with Abbado and the Berliners, always meant to pick this one up too, but never got to it. Now you've given me some impetus. Thanks for the interesting post, Leo. :)

8)

Thanks Gurn, and this is what a review of mine looks like on coffee (on a pleasant, cool Saturday morning), a lot of it!  ;D I hope you enjoy the recording. It is very cheap out there.





Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Leo K. on January 19, 2013, 07:54:13 AM
Thanks Gurn, and this is what a review of mine looks like on coffee (on a pleasant, cool Saturday morning), a lot of it!  ;D I hope you enjoy the recording. It is very cheap out there.

Yup, just bought it brand new for $6.99 at AMP. Can't beat that! :)

1935   Vienna Philharmonic   Weingartner, Felix
1953   Vienna Philharmonic   Furtwängler, Wilhelm
1955   Vienna Philharmonic   Walter, Bruno
1965   Vienna Philharmonic   Schmidt-Isserstedt, Hans
1970   Vienna Philharmonic   Böhm, Karl
1980   Vienna Philharmonic   Bernstein, Leonard
1980   Vienna Philharmonic   Böhm, Karl
1987        Vienna Philharmonic   Abbado, Claudio

It fits into my collection here, which is a nice span of time to see the same orchestra play the same work and see it evolve. Now I'd like to get something from the late '90's and late 200x's.   :)

8)
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Leo K.

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 19, 2013, 08:02:54 AM
Yup, just bought it brand new for $6.99 at AMP. Can't beat that! :)

1935   Vienna Philharmonic   Weingartner, Felix
1953   Vienna Philharmonic   Furtwängler, Wilhelm
1955   Vienna Philharmonic   Walter, Bruno
1965   Vienna Philharmonic   Schmidt-Isserstedt, Hans
1970   Vienna Philharmonic   Böhm, Karl
1980   Vienna Philharmonic   Bernstein, Leonard
1980   Vienna Philharmonic   Böhm, Karl
1987        Vienna Philharmonic   Abbado, Claudio

It fits into my collection here, which is a nice span of time to see the same orchestra play the same work and see it evolve. Now I'd like to get something from the late '90's and late 200x's.   :)

8)

I love how you collect the 9th! Sometime, I would love to read a survey (by you) of the 9th as played by the Vienna Philharmonic.  8)



Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Leo K. on January 19, 2013, 08:19:49 AM
I love how you collect the 9th! Sometime, I would love to read a survey (by you) of the 9th as played by the Vienna Philharmonic.  8)

Thanks. There are so many aspects of interest over such a long time that nearly anyone can find a niche to explore. And the research is so... blissful!   :)

I'll have to think about that. At least it doesn't smack of a competition (no interest in that) but instead, it's evolution, and that's right up my alley!  :)

8)
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Leo K.

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 19, 2013, 08:55:00 AM
Thanks. There are so many aspects of interest over such a long time that nearly anyone can find a niche to explore. And the research is so... blissful!   :)

I'll have to think about that. At least it doesn't smack of a competition (no interest in that) but instead, it's evolution, and that's right up my alley!  :)

8)

Yes, I'm more interested in the evolution over who is better, and it's more fun to research that as well!  8) Also agree research is blissfull  ;D

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Leo K. on January 20, 2013, 05:49:55 AM
Yes, I'm more interested in the evolution over who is better, and it's more fun to research that as well!  8) Also agree research is blissfull  ;D

I think there is a book about the history of the WP that might be helpful here. I'll do a little research (beyond listening). :)

8)
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Gurn Blanston

This morning, continuing the theme of the last few weeks;
Quote
1958   Berlin Philharmonic   Cluytens, André
1958   Berlin Philharmonic   Fricsay, Ferenc
1958   Boston SO   Munch, Charles
1959   Orchestre Suisse-Romande   Ansermet, Ernest
1960   Leipzig Gewandhaus   Konwitschny, Franz
1961   Chicago Symphony   Reiner, Fritz
1961   Royal Philharmonic   Leibowitz, Rene

1962   Berlin Philharmonic   Karajan, Herbert von
1962   London Symphony   Monteux, Pierre
1963   Cleveland Orchestra   Szell, George



A version that I don't listen very often now, not because I don't think it's one of the all-time greats, but because when, in October of 1995 I realized that I treasured this music enough to listen to it in a nearly ritual manner every week, this was one of only two versions that I had, and clearly the better of them. So fair to say, I have heard it a few times!  The danger there is imprinting; can anyone lead an orchestra more spiritedly in the Scherzo: Molto vivace than Karajan?  Is there a better bass/baritone than Berry for the 'O Freunde, nicht diese Töne'?   You know what I mean. It gives one a jaundiced ear towards everyone else. :)

That said, let me ask you,  can anyone lead an orchestra more spiritedly in the Scherzo: Molto vivace than Karajan?  Is there a better bass/baritone than Berry for the 'O Freunde, nicht diese Töne'?   :D  This is a seriously good recording of a seriously good performance. Karajan was more interested in leading the orchestra than he was in leading the sound engineers back then, apparently , and it shows in the results.

BTW, on the subject of Karajan, when people are having those face-offs of conductors against themselves (which is quite odd, but that's beyond me), I don't see this one in the running ever;



It's damned decent, and since it's 'live', it harks back to teh earlier days when Herb was more likely to be on the podium than in the booth... :)

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Gurn Blanston

In looking around during last week's Karajan '62 performance (highly enjoyable!) I ran across the fact that the DGOriginals version had been remastered and the SQ is supposedly significantly better. So, finding a new copy for pennies, I picked that up this week, along with these others that caqme under discussion;




Good listening here! I included the last disk because for a couple of years now, I have only seen the Rattle cover as a thumbnail, and I couldn't help but think that it was intended as a takeoff of the Brilliant gargoyle....   :D

8)
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John Copeland

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 04, 2012, 08:41:12 AM
Today it is a conductor about whom I know very little. This is my only recording by him, but I am quite fond of it. The Staatskapelle Berlin are on the list of Central Euro orchestras who seem to play Beethoven like he was their own. a style I admire, I must say.



We are just now beginning the recitativo for the basses, so I must leave off writing for a bit... :)

8)

I got my paws on that about 6 weeks ago.  I think it is a recording whose eminence has not yet been recognized.  It is both broad and brilliant with precise timing and exciting dynamics.  Otmar Suitner really is a conductor par excellence, and the whole performance is a real treat.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Scots John on January 26, 2013, 04:30:52 PM
I got my paws on that about 6 weeks ago.  I think it is a recording whose eminence has not yet been recognized.  It is both broad and brilliant with precise timing and exciting dynamics.  Otmar Suitner really is a conductor par excellence, and the whole performance is a real treat.

Agreed, John. I came away very impressed with it. It will be a wee bit before it comes up in the queue again; can't wait!   :)

8)
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DavidA

I haven't heard Rattle's recording of the ninth but I did catch a televised broadcast of him conducting it. Frankly I was disappointed. He just didn't do it for me as far as this symphony is concerned. Just felt that there was a lack of real Beethovian understanding. Seemed rather fussy. Am I alone in this?

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: DavidA on January 27, 2013, 06:29:38 AM
I haven't heard Rattle's recording of the ninth but I did catch a televised broadcast of him conducting it. Frankly I was disappointed. He just didn't do it for me as far as this symphony is concerned. Just felt that there was a lack of real Beethovian understanding. Seemed rather fussy. Am I alone in this?

I haven't even heard that much of him yet, David. I figure it will be 3 or 4 Sundays out before I get to him now. Don't know what to make of Rattle; his fans are legion and loving him, his detractors likewise and not. Of course, whatever problems Santa Fe Listener has with it only serve to make it more attractive to me.... :)

8)
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Gurn Blanston

Coming to the end of this particular blast from the past, only a couple of performances left, but they are good ones!

1958   Berlin Philharmonic   Cluytens, André
1958   Berlin Philharmonic   Fricsay, Ferenc
1958   Boston SO   Munch, Charles
1959   Orchestre Suisse-Romande   Ansermet, Ernest
1960   Leipzig Gewandhaus   Konwitschny, Franz
1961   Chicago Symphony   Reiner, Fritz
1961   Royal Philharmonic   Leibowitz, Rene
1962   Berlin Philharmonic   Karajan, Herbert von

1962   London Symphony   Monteux, Pierre
1963   Cleveland Orchestra   Szell, George



Today, Pierre Monteux brings the London Symphony along. Since he was born less than 50 years (1875) after the death of Beethoven (1827), it would be hard to imagine a conductor who was more steeped in late Romantic style. But my expectations for that were pleasantly dashed when by and large, Monteux put a Toscanini-ish sort of gloss on everything. The 4th movement is taken a bit more deliberately than it would be done today, but things like the long, slow crescendo after the Turkish section, which is usually done as an unwritten accelerando instead by the old guard work very nicely here. It does want some dynamic increase there, and maintaining the tempo is a feat. He died only 2 years after this performance, and it is nice to have a record of the style of a really fine, influential conductor. For those who don't know, at Stravinsky's request, Monteux conducted the world premiere's of both Petrushka and The Rite of Spring. While listening to Stravinsky play through the score of "Rite" on the piano, Monteux says that the only thought he could remember was "I'll stick with Beethoven!".   :)

8)
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DavidRoss

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 26, 2013, 12:40:23 PM

I listened to this via Mog yesterday, after listening to P. Jarvi's Bremen Beethoven 6th. It might not have been fair to do that to Rattie, for it made his account of the 9th seem even more dull, uninspired, and lethargic than it might have seemed had I cleared my aural palate first.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: DavidRoss on January 27, 2013, 07:33:19 AM
I listened to this via Mog yesterday, after listening to P. Jarvi's Bremen Beethoven 6th. It might not have been fair to do that to Rattie, for it made his account of the 9th seem even more dull, uninspired, and lethargic than it might have seemed had I cleared my aural palate first.

:D

You're a hard man, D. Ross!  :)

8)
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DavidRoss

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 27, 2013, 07:34:51 AM
You're a hard man, D. Ross!  :)
But I wanted to like it, Gurn.  After all, it's dirt cheap on Amazon ($18 for the set).

Your mention of Santa Fe "Listener" above inspired me to seek his review on Amazon. He rates the set better than average while describing the performances as virtually indistinguishable from Abbado's BP cycle.   :o  The only way he could more thoroughly undermine his own credibility would be to claim that Bach's not worth his attention or that Beethoven is overrated.  ;D
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: DavidRoss on January 27, 2013, 07:51:53 AM
But I wanted to like it, Gurn.  After all, it's dirt cheap on Amazon ($18 for the set).

Your mention of Santa Fe "Listener" above inspired me to seek his review on Amazon. He rates the set better than average while describing the performances as virtually indistinguishable from Abbado's BP cycle.   :o  The only way he could more thoroughly undermine his own credibility would be to claim that Bach's not worth his attention or that Beethoven is overrated.  ;D

Well, I want to like it too. Although I got it because I was talking with Leo last week about watching how the Vienna Philharmonic has performed this work through the years, and recordings from the early 2000's by them are rather thin on the ground without Rattle in there.

Yes, ever since you pointed out SFL to me I have used him as a reverse benchmark, so to speak. :)

8)
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DavidRoss

After looking up the aforementioned Amazon "review," I skimmed the rest of them for this set. Some think it's the greatest thing since the mute switch on remote controls. Others think it's best experienced with the mute switch on. Such disparity of opinion piques my curiosity, so I'll probably listen to more from this set, courtesy of Mog, but if Jens thought it dudly then it probably is ... to my ears, at least.  ;)  ;D
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

trung224

#538
 I bought the Rattle's Beethoven cycle recently, and I didn't like it much . Rattle, as usual, always try to find something new in the score, and actually, this set have some wonderful moment like the Fourth, the first movement of the Third and the Sixth. However, Rattle doesn't understand the principal point of Beethoven music, IMHO: forward momentum. Beethoven's music always is looking- forward music, and conductor must understand that regardless their choice of tempo. For example, Klemperer, Furtwängler and Szell is master Beethovenian even their tempo is always moderate, even slow, but they can sustain tension and forward momentum even in the slowest section. Rattle can generate the wonderful passion in fast section, but after that he relaxed a bit and the tension is almost completely lost, and the symphony falls to unconving start-stop episodic performance. That is the reason someone calls Rattle's interpretation "fussy". That is the reason I can't rate this cycle highly though  I like Rattle much.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: DavidRoss on January 27, 2013, 11:29:09 AM
After looking up the aforementioned Amazon "review," I skimmed the rest of them for this set. Some think it's the greatest thing since the mute switch on remote controls. Others think it's best experienced with the mute switch on. Such disparity of opinion piques my curiosity, so I'll probably listen to more from this set, courtesy of Mog, but if Jens thought it dudly then it probably is ... to my ears, at least.  ;)  ;D

Yes, that's the effect I was mentioning earlier; it's Rattle-icious! Somewhere in this list there is a thread about Rattle which I was reading just recently. It was half and half, so one can't tell whether the sun actually does shine out of his ass or whether that is merely the cumulative effect of the many, tiny explosions caused by his duds hitting ground. :-\  I don't personally have an opinion yet, since my Rattle collection grew to 1 yesterday with the arrival of this 9th. I have heard some on radio though and was duly left undecided. Not like when I first heard Kleiber, for example.   :)

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