Recordings that you enjoy: Beethoven Symphony #9

Started by Gurn Blanston, April 26, 2009, 08:39:39 AM

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Gurn Blanston

Well, now that the early '60's retrospective is behind, time to come back to the present for a bit to hear one of the new versions that accumulated while we were rockin' 'round the clock. :)



I've always liked the playing of the Bavarians no matter who is in charge at the time. Unlike many of you guys, I don't have much Jansons, not enough to say I am familiar with his proclivities. Since I have only now got to the crucial singin' bits, I can't report on them yet. In fact, it usually takes me 2 or 3 listenings to have an opinion unless there is a tragedy on tape. But what I have heard so far is very acceptable. I would like the recorded balance to lean a bit more towards the chorus, it is nice to be able to hear the soloists so well, but it takes some getting used to given that it is rarely set up like that. I'll be back to this one soon, need to hear it again.  :)

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Gurn Blanston

This morning, it is another one that is new to me. Somehow I managed to amass 4 or 5 new versions while I was listening to a predetermined series. I rarely have this many unheard versions in the pile!  :o

Today it is this one;



Performed in 1992, rather late in Tennstedt's career, it is a monument to classic performance style. I read a review somewhere complaining that it didn't have any features of the newly emerging performance style; it was lush and rich and slow when it wanted to be and not slow when it didn't want to be. Well, I thought at the time, and that is reinforced by this first listening; why should it be anything else? Why would Tennstedt suddenly abandon what has served him brilliantly his entire career and become a messenger boy for something entirely different?  If this performance had been recorded in the early part of his career it would still be hailed as one of the greats!  :)

In any case, it isn't hard to see why Tennstedt garnered high praise during his career. He has his hands firmly in control of the orchestra and a great conception of how this piece should work, and here he executes it to the full. I like it. Oh, did I mention the lineup of soloists? No need to extol their virtues, but they are one of the all around best.

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Gurn Blanston

In a discussion a couple of months ago, this CD came up;



I have Abbado with the BPO on CD in Berlin and on DVD in Rome, so it was a nice chance to see him with a different orchestra, albeit one I was quite familiar with. Overall, this seems to lack a bit of the precision and dynamic nuance that are present in the much later versions with the Berliners. And there are a couple of points in the Scherzo where things unaccountably slow down unexpectedly. Still, the playing is overall up to the standard of the WP, and easily as good as 5-6 years earlier under Böhm or Bernstein. Abbado clearly applies the spurs to them a bit more than the other two!  High point for me was the great bass/baritone singing of Hermann Prey, one of my favorite singers who was in fine form that day!  I guess I need to get the Salzburg version now to have a Abbado Sweep. It's supposed to be his best, time to find out. :)

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DavidA

For me the best Beethoven 9th is Karajan's 1977.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: DavidA on March 08, 2013, 11:14:48 PM
For me the best Beethoven 9th is Karajan's 1977.

You have a lot of company. I like that version OK too. My premise in this thread is that there isn't a 'best' version though. I would be interested to know what other versions that you've compared it to. I'm always looking for new ones to add. I listen to the 9th every Sunday AM, so if I only had Karajan '77, it wouldn't be long before I gave that up!  >:D

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bhodges

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 24, 2013, 06:46:25 AM
This morning, it is another one that is new to me. Somehow I managed to amass 4 or 5 new versions while I was listening to a predetermined series. I rarely have this many unheard versions in the pile!  :o

Today it is this one;



Performed in 1992, rather late in Tennstedt's career, it is a monument to classic performance style. I read a review somewhere complaining that it didn't have any features of the newly emerging performance style; it was lush and rich and slow when it wanted to be and not slow when it didn't want to be. Well, I thought at the time, and that is reinforced by this first listening; why should it be anything else? Why would Tennstedt suddenly abandon what has served him brilliantly his entire career and become a messenger boy for something entirely different?  If this performance had been recorded in the early part of his career it would still be hailed as one of the greats!  :)

In any case, it isn't hard to see why Tennstedt garnered high praise during his career. He has his hands firmly in control of the orchestra and a great conception of how this piece should work, and here he executes it to the full. I like it. Oh, did I mention the lineup of soloists? No need to extol their virtues, but they are one of the all around best.

8)

Wow, does this look great (as a longtime Tennstedt fan). What a group of soloists, too. Thanks for putting this on the radar; I haven't bought a Ninth in awhile, but this looks well worth hearing.

--Bruce

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Brewski on March 09, 2013, 06:51:11 AM
Wow, does this look great (as a longtime Tennstedt fan). What a group of soloists, too. Thanks for putting this on the radar; I haven't bought a Ninth in awhile, but this looks well worth hearing.

--Bruce

I was very satisfied with it, Bruce; it was just what I was looking for and better than I had hoped. I plan on revisiting it soon. :)

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bhodges

I know you generally prefer HIP (or HIP-oriented) performances, but this looks like a strong contender in the "traditionally sumptuous" category (e.g., like Karajan).

--Bruce

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Brewski on March 09, 2013, 07:03:09 AM
I know you generally prefer HIP (or HIP-oriented) performances, but this looks like a strong contender in the "traditionally sumptuous" category (e.g., like Karajan).

--Bruce

All true. The 9th transcends whoever plays it, IMO. I even like the gigantic performances (as long as they move along), and Glenn Gould accompanying himself on the piano.   >:D :D

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bhodges


mc ukrneal

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 11, 2013, 08:08:35 AM
Well, one day it will fit you perfectly, and then you will be ready for it. This would be a good choice, no doubt. What's your other good one? Gardiner? :)

8)
Sorry - missed your response. Nope. I have Karajan 63 and Harnoncourt. I never listen to the Harnoncourt (the only ones I listen to from that series are 1,2 and 6 for the most part). That's why I got the Karajan.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: mc ukrneal on March 09, 2013, 07:33:58 AM
Sorry - missed your response. Nope. I have Karajan 63 and Harnoncourt. I never listen to the Harnoncourt (the only ones I listen to from that series are 1,2 and 6 for the most part). That's why I got the Karajan.

Well, Harnoncourt is a good version, pity it doesn't appeal. Still, my guess of Gardiner wasn't totally random, I think that maybe the shock of the difference will grab your attention all over again. My closet secret; Gardiner is in my Top 3 of all versions. There should be a version on YouTube, I recommend a listen. If you don't like it, nothing lost. :)

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DavidA

Whatever you have the ninth s such a work that defies the definitive interpretation. I think Karajan 77 just shades it. But then I have Toscanini, Klemperer, Chailly, Bernstein, Norrington, et al. Not to mention Karajan 63. All with much to offer.

mc ukrneal

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on March 09, 2013, 07:39:59 AM
Well, Harnoncourt is a good version, pity it doesn't appeal. Still, my guess of Gardiner wasn't totally random, I think that maybe the shock of the difference will grab your attention all over again. My closet secret; Gardiner is in my Top 3 of all versions. There should be a version on YouTube, I recommend a listen. If you don't like it, nothing lost. :)

8)
A quick pass through a few bits, it seems crisp and clear with everything audible (and fleet, which I don't mind at all). For me though, it's not weighty/full enough. The Tennstedt looks more like my type.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: DavidA on March 09, 2013, 07:46:33 AM
Whatever you have the ninth s such a work that defies the definitive interpretation. I think Karajan 77 just shades it. But then I have Toscanini, Klemperer, Chailly, Bernstein, Norrington, et al. Not to mention Karajan 63. All with much to offer.

Yes, that's a nice diversity. I like the way you threw the Chailly in there for balance. :)  Is that the London Norrington or the Stuttgart one?

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Gurn Blanston

Quote from: mc ukrneal on March 09, 2013, 07:51:08 AM
A quick pass through a few bits, it seems crisp and clear with everything audible (and fleet, which I don't mind at all). For me though, it's not weighty/full enough. The Tennstedt looks more like my type.

Yes, I hear that a lot, not necessarily about Gardiner, but about just about any version at all that doesn't quite hit the spot. But the parts that Beethoven marked 'maestoso' are properly maestoso. What I have found is that traditional stylists have made the entire work that way (except for some of the Scherzo), and now many people expect that. I think you will like the Tennstedt, it is weighty without being ponderous and it is fleet where it should be. Great singers too. :)

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Gurn Blanston

Well, that was interesting! This morning's listening was this one, new to me but discussed here previously;



Since I have a fair number of Wiener Philharmoniker 9th's, ranging from Weingartner to Abbado, I thought I would know what to expect from Rattle. But no, I didn't. In fact I'm still not entirely sure what all just happened there! Odd little shifting of accents were prevalent throughout, even persisting into the choral section. I expect that the singers needed to work at it a bit to get the hang of what the accent scheme might be. Which is not to say that it was disgusting, rather it was unique. The listener would need to judge whether it was personally acceptable. For myself, it answered the question of whether I could pick a certain recording out of the 100 or so that I have. I could pick this one!  Overall tempos were really quite good, and the instruments that had little obbligato solos throughout were usually nicely audible, which is a rare enough occurrence to demand remark.

I certainly wouldn't want this as my only 9th, so you kids out there looking for your first version please keep moving down the list. But it is going to be good for those times when I want something decidedly individual to listen to. Whenever those times may occur.... :)

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Marc

Quote from: DavidA on March 08, 2013, 11:14:48 PM
For me the best Beethoven 9th is Karajan's 1977.



Just listened to that one this afternoon, went into a happy mood but then became disappointed during the final movement, which didn't bring any real Freude to me. The choir singing is rather grim instead of joyful, and I'm not quite sure if Anna Tomowa-Sintow used a German textbook. Peter Schreier is excellent, though.

I also had problems with the balance between choir, soloists and orchestra. It didn't sound very realistic IMO.

Mind you, the first 3 movements are OK to me, with the 1st and 3rd movement as highlights.

DavidA

Quote from: Marc on March 10, 2013, 10:54:36 AM


Just listened to that one this afternoon, went into a happy mood but then became disappointed during the final movement, which didn't bring any real Freude to me. The choir singing is rather grim instead of joyful, and I'm not quite sure if Anna Tomowa-Sintow used a German textbook. Peter Schreier is excellent, though.

I also had problems with the balance between choir, soloists and orchestra. It didn't sound very realistic IMO.

Mind you, the first 3 movements are OK to me, with the 1st and 3rd movement as highlights.

To me the finale is pretty well balanced, the way Karajan mingles the choir and the orchestra. Truly 'drunk with fire'.

Marc

#579
Quote from: DavidA on March 10, 2013, 11:34:11 AM
To me the finale is pretty well balanced, the way Karajan mingles the choir and the orchestra. Truly 'drunk with fire'.

Karajan's finale reminded me of a line in a Joy Division song called 'Disorder': I've got the spirit, but lose the feeling.
But don't get me wrong: I think this performance is still very worthwhile, but it's not a personal favourite.

Today I listened to Eugen Jochum conducting the Concertgebouw Orkest, and he's certainly more elegant than Karajan, and brings more wit to the second movement. But, unlike Karajan, there's a lack of intensity in the 1st movement. No real trace of any grim characteristics can be found here. And in the 3rd movement Jochum doesn't seem able to maintain the tension. The finale gives me more joy though. As a whole, because it's also recorded in a warm concert hall sound (Philips engineers knew their job back then), it's a more uplifting conclusion than Karajan's. Soprano Liselotte Rebman is better than Tomowa-Sintow, but tenor Anton de Ridder is no match for Peter Schreier.



http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphony-Netherland-Radio-Chorus/dp/B00000E3VY/