Recordings that you enjoy: Beethoven Symphony #9

[Gurn Blanston]

Karajan's finale reminded me of a line in a Joy Division song called 'Disorder': I've got the spirit, but lose the feeling.
But don't get me wrong: I think this performance is still very worthwhile, but it's not a personal favourite.

Today I listened to Eugen Jochum conducting the Concertgebouw Orkest, and he's certainly more elegant than Karajan, and brings more wit to the second movement. But, unlike Karajan, there's a lack of intensity in the 1st movement. No real trace of any grim characteristics can be found here. And in the 3rd movement Jochum doesn't seem able to maintain the tension. The finale gives me more joy though. As a whole, because it's also recorded in a warm concert hall sound (Philips engineers knew their job back then), it's a more uplifting conclusion than Karajan's. Soprano Liselotte Rebman is better than Tomowa-Sintow, but tenor Anton de Ridder is no match for Peter Schreier.

I really enjoy this recording too. Although your post raises the question for me; what "grim characteristics" are there to be found in the 1st movement? Dramatic tension in the 3rd, yes. Expectations of grimness must surely rest on yourself, although I would agree with a general air of mystery, at least in the first half which Beethoven provides by 'hiding' the tonality for a while. I've always thought of this opening as the next logical step after Haydn's 'Chaos' opening of 'The Creation'.

IMO, very few tenors are a match for Schreier. He's a good'un. 

[Marc]

I really enjoy this recording too. Although your post raises the question for me; what "grim characteristics" are there to be found in the 1st movement? Dramatic tension in the 3rd, yes. Expectations of grimness must surely rest on yourself, although I would agree with a general air of mystery, at least in the first half which Beethoven provides by 'hiding' the tonality for a while. I've always thought of this opening as the next logical step after Haydn's 'Chaos' opening of 'The Creation'.

IMO, very few tenors are a match for Schreier. He's a good'un. 

Maybe 'grim' isn't the right word.



Anyway, to my perception, there are some moments in the 1st movement, especially in the string parts during the climaxal passages, that break the 'general air of mystery'. Let's call it 'the grimness of Chaos', OK?
And I think that Karajan definitely delivers more of that than Jochum.

[Gurn Blanston]

Maybe 'grim' isn't the right word.



Anyway, to my perception, there are some moments in the 1st movement, especially in the string parts during the climaxal passages, that break the 'general air of mystery'. Let's call it 'the grimness of Chaos', OK?
And I think that Karajan definitely delivers more of that than Jochum.

We can certainly agree on 'misterioso'! 

[jlaurson]

In a discussion a couple of months ago, this CD came up;



I have Abbado with the BPO on CD in Berlin and on DVD in Rome, so it was a nice chance to see him with a different orchestra, ...  I guess I need to get the Salzburg version now to have a Abbado Sweep. It's supposed to be his best, time to find out.

Yes. Get it already. It's Abbado's best... and at the very least it is my favorite, right alongside Fricsay. (Excluding HIP... though no HIP version actually supplants either of those two from my top-Two, either... so never mind that.)

[Rinaldo]

I know I'm repeating myself but I just want to hug this thread.

On the Tennstedt now, another top tier performance and one of the best live records I've had the chance to encounter.

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes. Get it already. It's Abbado's best... and at the very least it is my favorite, right alongside Fricsay. (Excluding HIP... though no HIP version actually supplants either of those two from my top-Two, either... so never mind that.)

Ordering this week, Jens. Thanks for the rec!

I heard somewhere that the DVD I have from Rome is also released as a CD, but don't know that. I am very partial to that version too. DVD's are inconvenient at times...

[Gurn Blanston]

I know I'm repeating myself but I just want to hug this thread.

On the Tennstedt now, another top tier performance and one of the best live records I've had the chance to encounter.

That's another aspect that I forgot to mention; it is such a good recording that you forget it's live. No honking and snot blowing; just  crisp and clean, just like a good pilsener...

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes. Get it already. It's Abbado's best... and at the very least it is my favorite, right alongside Fricsay. (Excluding HIP... though no HIP version actually supplants either of those two from my top-Two, either... so never mind that.)

Jens, this is the one we are discussing, is it not? From the Salzburg Easter Festival? 

[asin]B0001ENYEY[/asin]

I note that Santa Fe Listener (my personal Coal Mine Canary) only gives it 3 stars and generally damns Abbado with faint praise, so I have my hopes high that this will be just right!   

[jlaurson]

Jens, this is the one we are discussing, is it not? From the Salzburg Easter Festival? 

[asin]B0001ENYEY[/asin]

I note that Santa Fe Listener (my personal Coal Mine Canary) only gives it 3 stars and generally damns Abbado with faint praise, so I have my hopes high that this will be just right!   

Yes. http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12281.msg513447.html#msg513447

L.v. Beethoven,
Symphony No.9,
Abbado / BPh – Salzburg
Sony

By personal Coal Mine Canary you mean that you wish him dead on the floor, killed by carbon monoxide poisoning (emitted from one of his own orifices, ironically)... and then make a quick getaway? A bit gruesome, I'd say, but I hear ya'.

Of course he also thinks that Guenter Wand is an overrated hack who never conducted anything but Brahms, Bruckner and Beethoven and that only mediocrily. He seems to regurgitate his own prejudices with fresh adjectives, but no more.

Anyway: I can't link to the LvB Sy.9 Survey on WETA, for it is no more... but here's part of the text of Part II:

....it is impossible to cast off subjectivity, but I try not to include recordings in this list whose inclusion would be based on an emotional, rather than a musical response. Of course our response to music is in significant part emotional, a matter of taste and thus subjective and what is great to one may be perfunctory to another. Fortunately there are also objective standards of quality. And there are emotional capacities in music which resonate with like-minded listeners. Vivacity or grand opulence, sinuosity and long musical lines have an inevitable appeal – although of varying importance depending on personal preference.

Asked for a suggestion on the finest kind of ice-cream, I won't recommend a brand's strawberry blend above chocolate, if the asker is allergic to strawberries. All the greatness of a romantic reading won't be of much use to someone who prefers fleet and classical Beethoven. In those very few cases where I feel the quality of an interpretation transcends its type, I will mention it – and ask for a small amount of faith of those listeners that might otherwise be instinctively disinclined.

As a basic building block for any classical collection, I recommend the sometimes overlooked Claudio Abbado 1996 performance from Salzburg. The Berlin Philharmonic, the Eric Ericson Chamber Choir, and the soloists Jane Eaglen, Waltraud Meier, Ben Heppner, and Bryn Terfel are a veritable dream-cast. Better yet: the sense of occasion on this live recording is palpable which animates the sometimes staid Abbado. Marginally on the broad side (~72 minutes), this is a 'universal' interpretation – Abbado's best – that will satisfy all who want to listen to music, not ideology. Without any particular, strong interpretive flavor, the over-all impression is terrific, not bland.

Similar in feel of 'over-all greatness', though dissimilar in execution, is Günter Wand's studio recording with the NDRSO from ten years earlier. At 66 minutes it is a tighter, more straight forward reading. It has less a sense of occasion, but a quicker pulse. The total absence of ego or sense of interpretation makes it a contender. Others fall into this category too – Kubelik, Jochum – but Wand's is a true gem.

For me, unassuming, inextinguishable musicality was also found in conductor Ferenc Fricsay. There are few recordings of his that I don't love – and even if I never finish that half-written article on his discography, I must mention his 1958 Beethoven Ninth. A milestone for the recording industry as the first Ninth recorded in stereo, it still sounds terrific to this day... there is nothing 'historic' about it. A splendid cast (Irmgard Seefried, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Ernst Haefliger, Maureen Forrester), and the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra in great shape help Fricsay make this one of the great recordings of the Ninth, able to compete with the finest modern accounts. Karajan added many recordings with the Berliners later on, and while those from 1962 and 1976 are superb, too, the greater sense of buoyancy with Fricsay is worth the (relative to Karajan) lack of polish and sheen...
yaddayaddayadda...

From Part III

Five best recordings in each category: "Historic" - "Burnished" - "HIP" - "Modern" - "Standard"

"Standard" – not to be mistaken as 'blasé', but performances without particularly strong interpretive marks, in the traditional vein without exaggeration in any direction... perhaps the "none of the above" category. Some of my favorite performances fall into this category. Above all Abbado's in Salzburg, but also Ferenc Fricsay's, and, at a short distance behind, Günter Wand's or Szell's Cleveland account and all of Karajan's slick recordings.

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes. http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12281.msg513447.html#msg513447

L.v. Beethoven,
Symphony No.9,
Abbado / BPh – Salzburg
Sony

By personal Coal Mine Canary you mean that you wish him dead on the floor, killed by carbon monoxide poisoning (emitted from one of his own orifices, ironically)... and then make a quick getaway? A bit gruesome, I'd say, but I hear ya'.

Of course he also thinks that Guenter Wand is an overrated hack who never conducted anything but Brahms, Bruckner and Beethoven and that only mediocrily. He seems to regurgitate his own prejudices with fresh adjectives, but no more.

Anyway: I can't link to the LvB Sy.9 Survey on WETA, for it is no more... but here's part of the text of Part II:

From Part III

Interesting review, thanks for that.

Well, possibly not quite that gruesome! In SFL's case, I have discovered that my own response to disks is inversely proportional to his. So, I drop him down the mine, if he spirals into the abyss, then I know it's a winner.     

Ordered it. It may even be here in time for Sunday AM...

[mc ukrneal]

Asked for a suggestion on the finest kind of ice-cream, I won't recommend a brand's strawberry blend above chocolate, if the asker is allergic to strawberries. All the greatness of a romantic reading won't be of much use to someone who prefers fleet and classical Beethoven. In those very few cases where I feel the quality of an interpretation transcends its type, I will mention it – and ask for a small amount of faith of those listeners that might otherwise be instinctively disinclined.

I realize this is a major tangent, but it is just something that needs being said. Seriously, does anyone really like strawberry ice cream? I remember as a kid, when they used to serve the ice cream with the three flavors in one half gallon - the strawberry was always last. No one ever wanted it. I only mention this because I was on a recent flight where the inflight snack was ice cream and they only had strawberry. I mean, what a disappointment! (By the way, most of it went uneaten - surprise, surprise - I know, because I asked the stewardess). 

[jlaurson]

I realize this is a major tangent, but it is just something that needs being said. Seriously, does anyone really like strawberry ice cream? I remember as a kid, when they used to serve the ice cream with the three flavors in one half gallon - the strawberry was always last. No one ever wanted it. I only mention this because I was on a recent flight where the inflight snack was ice cream and they only had strawberry. I mean, what a disappointment! (By the way, most of it went uneaten - surprise, surprise - I know, because I asked the stewardess). 

Fakery sucks, the real thing rocks!

[Brian]

I'm with you on Santa Fe Listener, Gurn. When he likes a CD I like, it makes me question my judgment. When he gives something three stars or fewer, guaranteed wishlist add.

[Mirror Image]

Fakery sucks, the real thing rocks!

I never had any Haagen Dazs ice cream believe it or not. I've always been a loyal Mayfield fan. What flavor should I try first in the Haagen Dazs? I'm a big butter pecan fan, have tried their version?

[jlaurson]

I never had any Haagen Dazs ice cream believe it or not. I've always been a loyal Mayfield fan. What flavor should I try first in the Haagen Dazs? I'm a big butter pecan fan, have tried their version?

Their simple mono-flavour ice-creams are best, I find. Strawberry. Vanilla Bean. Maybe Chocolate. Or Pistachio, if you like pistachio. Have not had their butter pecan (or at least I don't remember it). Not technically ice-cream, but their Mango Sorbet is very addictive, too. Haven't had their "Dark Chocolate" either (in fact, found out about it only now, looking at all the flavours) but am sorely tempted. I rarely eat ice-cream, but when you put a pint of HD in front of me (or Cherry Garcia B&J) the calorie-police needs to pry the spoon from my hands with brute force, to keep me from digging right through to the bottom of the cup.

[Gurn Blanston]

And a perfect snack while enjoying a recording of Beethoven's 9th, I might add.

I'm with you on Santa Fe Listener, Gurn. When he likes a CD I like, it makes me question my judgment. When he gives something three stars or fewer, guaranteed wishlist add.

Since that phenomenon was first pointed out to me by David Ross, I have been stunned by how uncannily accurate it is. The floor of my listening room is now paved with dead canaries.... 

[Pat B]

Funny to see the comparisons between Jochum '69 and Karajan '77 -- I just compared those a few days ago.

Karajan '77 was the first one I had on CD. It has never done much for me.

I've been on a Beethoven 9 binge lately, adding Haitink '06, Vanska, Harnoncourt, Jochum '69, and arriving just today, Fricsay. I need to give them more listens but for now, Jochum has moved to the top of my list. I don't detect any lack of intensity. Fricsay, on one listen, is right up there. I hear in it a lot of the things people say about Karajan.

Oh, I almost forgot, I also bought Goehr from rediscovery (mp3). I haven't listened to it yet. It will be interesting to see how it stacks up to the bigger names.

I love Gardiner in 1-8, but I need the 9th to be huge.

I'll eventually give Karajan '63 a chance. Meanwhile I have to take a break from buying more of this piece (I'm up to at least 16 on CD).

If it's available in your area, Blue Bell Strawberries and Homemade Vanilla is excellent.

[Gurn Blanston]

Funny to see the comparisons between Jochum '69 and Karajan '77 -- I just compared those a few days ago.

Karajan '77 was the first one I had on CD. It has never done much for me.

I've been on a Beethoven 9 binge lately, adding Haitink '06, Vanska, Harnoncourt, Jochum '69, and arriving just today, Fricsay. I need to give them more listens but for now, Jochum has moved to the top of my list. I don't detect any lack of intensity. Fricsay, on one listen, is right up there. I hear in it a lot of the things people say about Karajan.

Oh, I almost forgot, I also bought Goehr from rediscovery (mp3). I haven't listened to it yet. It will be interesting to see how it stacks up to the bigger names.

I love Gardiner in 1-8, but I need the 9th to be huge.

I'll eventually give Karajan '63 a chance. Meanwhile I have to take a break from buying more of this piece (I'm up to at least 16 on CD).

If it's available in your area, Blue Bell Strawberries and Homemade Vanilla is excellent.

That's a nice list to start out with if you are planning to have an abundance of 9ths!  I'll be curious to know about Goehr, never heard of him. What orchestra? Time frame? 

I make a concentrated effort to not come up with an ideal standard of how the 9th should sound. Each performance stands or falls on its own virtues. Thus I really like Gardiner, if only because it ISN"T Karajan/Jochum/Bernstein/Szell/etc.  The net result is that I get a lot of enjoyment out of every version I have, as long as they meet their own standard. BTW though, I have a 9th of Gardiner live from Carnegie Hall back in 1996, and there isn't the sense of leanness to it that the CD version has. It is also fascinating to watch, although that's a different subject.

I live within a couple hours of 'That Little Creamery in Brenham', can't help but agree; other ice creams just don't feed the bulldog like Blue Bell!   0:)

[Gurn Blanston]

Listening today to my 4th different Abbado!!



Comes strongly recommended, and not hard to hear why. Watching Abbado in the Berlin PO/Rome performance, and hearing him in these others, he brings an infectious joie de vivre that brings the best playing out of the orchestra and singers. Or maybe it is the venue, 'live' from the 1996 Salzburg Easter Festival, which makes for the touch of electricity which sets this performance apart. Whatever it is, this is clearly top rate, glad to finally have got it! 

[Pat B]

That's a nice list to start out with if you are planning to have an abundance of 9ths!  I'll be curious to know about Goehr, never heard of him. What orchestra? Time frame? 

I make a concentrated effort to not come up with an ideal standard of how the 9th should sound. Each performance stands or falls on its own virtues. Thus I really like Gardiner, if only because it ISN"T Karajan/Jochum/Bernstein/Szell/etc.  The net result is that I get a lot of enjoyment out of every version I have, as long as they meet their own standard. BTW though, I have a 9th of Gardiner live from Carnegie Hall back in 1996, and there isn't the sense of leanness to it that the CD version has. It is also fascinating to watch, although that's a different subject.

Well, "abundance" is a relative term -- I think I had 10 on CD before my recent spree, which puts me at 16 now. I know some people have more, but 16 seems like a lot! I agree that if we're going to have multiple copies, it makes sense to look for diverse styles, and to appreciate the variety.

That being said, I think Jochum '69 and maybe Fricsay will be the ones I turn to most often, followed by Bernstein '89 and Gardiner. I'm happy enough with these that I'll probably go on hiatus from further purchases.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, I rarely listen to Zinman.

Re: Goehr, I stumbled across him while googling the Pascal Quartet (whose Beethoven set is on archive.org). There's some information about him and the MMS label here, here, and of course on wikipedia. Apparently MMS was an early budget label, and the stories about how they operated are fascinating. The recording is available here. I listened to it this morning. It's a lively performance, and since I went in without overly high expectations, it was a fun listen. The orchestral balance seemed legitimately good. The worst thing about it is the stereo, where some instruments seem to move around, sometimes while they're playing.