Recordings that you enjoy: Beethoven Symphony #9

Started by Gurn Blanston, April 26, 2009, 08:39:39 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Gurn Blanston

Was reminded again this AM how many very nice versions there are of this magnificent work of art.



I've always liked Haitink among modern conductors, both in opera and instrumental music, because he seems, unlike many, to always be ready to update his idiom rather than stick with his original style. I like a conductor who is willing to grow at some point. Apparently many of the best orchestras value this trait also, since among his credits are two of the top orchestras around today, the London Symphony Orchestra and the Royal Concertgebouworkest. Here (in 2006), the Londoners are on top form that evening, and some fine soloists and choral singers join in to make one of the better recordings of the new millennium. Not to say we are in a Golden Age of 9ths so far, but still, some very fine efforts out there from Dausgaard, Vänskä, Järvi and Chailly. IMO, this ranks up there with them, clearly a nice disk to have. :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

David M

Hello, Sorry I am late. I just found this conversation and would love to contribute. I am glad it still is going strong after 4 years. Of course, the Ninth is an inexhaustible subject.

Many years ago, upon moving to a city with a great orchestra (Pittsburgh), I decided to get serious about classical music listening, forgo popular music (the 80's were a dark time), and go to as many PSO shows as I could. I would buy a recording of whatever was being played and got to know the standard repertoire in that way. I soon decided to start a collection of recordings of my favorite piece of music, Ludwig's Ninth Symphony. Now many years later, I have about 160 different performances in my collection and do continue to add more (most recent acquisition, Kent Nagano/ Orchestre Symphonique de Montreal on Sony). I did get up to speed and read through the 35 pages of conversation up to the present. I have now a long list of Ninth's I want to re-listen to that I have not gotten out in a while. I also have a few that I will consider adding now.

Gurn, I see you have enjoyed Haitink's latest Ninth. I do consider it the best of his 4 I that know and like it a great deal. I always felt like he has held back in his earlier recordings and was mildly disappointed. The disappointment may have come from my own expectations as I love his French music, his Stravinsky and especially his Shostakovich.

One recent Ninth that stands out for me and not seen mentioned here is the Stanislaw Skrowaczewski/Saarbrucken Radio Symphony Orchestra on OEHMS Classics. This could go into a category called "Recent Ninths Definitely NOT Influenced by the Period Instrument Movement". Broad tempos (70 minutes overall), big sound and climaxes. Reminds me of Karl Bohm/WP 1970 (a favorite of mine).

A not-so-recent one, obscure, not mentioned, that I have a strange affection for: Zdenek Macal/Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra on Koss (from July 31, 1989). Very brisk tempos coming in at under 61 minutes. Incisive, has a sense of occasion, good sound.

I was glad to read in your conversation that a couple of my old favorites have gotten praise here, Fricsay and Kletski. I would have expected them to be forgotten these days.

Any interest in discussing that weird phenomena of Ninth's sung not "auf Deutsch"? I have a few: English (Weingartner/LSO 1926 and Stokowski/Philadelphia); French (Koussevitsky/ORTF); Czech (Lovro von Matacic/cpo) and Hebrew (Kubelik/Israel Philharmonic). One weird thing is that only the Weingartner version I have (on LYS 190) tells you it is not in German and it tells you in French (Chantee en anglais).

So I have enjoyed joining in and hope to do more so in the future.



bhodges

Hi David M, and welcome. What's not to love about the Ninth? And I see you have come across Gurn, another big fan of the piece. Would also be interested in your comments on the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra, if you attend any of their concerts (perhaps in another thread).

--Bruce

Gurn Blanston

Hi, David! Oh, we just have tons to talk about. :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Pat B

Quote from: David M on June 14, 2013, 04:57:48 AM
I was glad to read in your conversation that a couple of my old favorites have gotten praise here, Fricsay and Kletski. I would have expected them to be forgotten these days.

Any interest in discussing that weird phenomena of Ninth's sung not "auf Deutsch"? I have a few: English (Weingartner/LSO 1926 and Stokowski/Philadelphia); French (Koussevitsky/ORTF); Czech (Lovro von Matacic/cpo) and Hebrew (Kubelik/Israel Philharmonic). One weird thing is that only the Weingartner version I have (on LYS 190) tells you it is not in German and it tells you in French (Chantee en anglais).

Great post and welcome from another newbie.

I haven't heard Kletski, but I think Fricsay will remain a classic for a long time.

The Ninth in other languages is an idea that had never occurred to me. I'm not sure I'd like it in English, but the others are intriguing. I have the Choral Fantasy in Russian (Richter/Sanderling) which is gloriously weird.

David M

Reply to Brewski regarding the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra. I am glad to talk about them. I saw about 12 shows in the 12-13 season. I believe they compare well with any of the great orchestras in the USA or anywhere. I do travel to see other orchestras, near and far, and have seen in the last 5 years the Cleveland Orchestra, Philadelphia Orchestra, Cincinnati Symphony, New York Philharmonic, New Jersey Philharmonic, the Dayton Philharmonic, the National Symphony, Baltimore Symphony, BBC Symphony and the Royal Concertgebouw (at the Concertgebouw WOW). Manfred Honeck is good, favoring fairly extreme dynamics and generally brisk tempos, precise playing. The orchestra does seem to follow him where he leads.

More relevant to this discussion is that I did recently see the PSO and Honeck perform the Beethoven Ninth. He took the first part of the concert to contrast musically (the orchestra played maybe 6 examples)what he called the old (slow) way of doing the Ninth with his attempt to take seriously Beethoven's metronome markings. This was a bit simplistic for me as many conductors in the old days did Beethoven with brisk tempos (Weingartner, Toscanini, Leibowitz, Szell etc...). Of course, most people do not know that and so may have found it interesting. His performance was quite fast, dynamic, incisive, well played, coming in at maybe 62 minutes. I enjoyed it very much but it was still too fast for me at times. My favorite live experiences with the Ninth (Jansons, Maazel) are still my favorites.

Cascade

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 02, 2013, 07:20:22 AM
That is a great 9th, Gurn. Dohnanyi's 3rd and 6th from that Telarc set are also stellar.

A great (underrated) Beethoven cycle. The sound isn't ideal, but the performances are all top-notch.

Gurn Blanston

On this lovely Sunday AM, Father's Day in US, and with a round of golf already in the books, a perfect time to relax with one of my favorite PI 9ths;



I've always found it interesting what a mixed reaction this recording receives, ranging from "it's no Furtwängler (good!)" to "it sounds too much like modern instruments to be HIP"... ::)   

Well, I think it's a shame really that anyone would think that if it sounded good it couldn't be period instruments, since period instruments sound perfect to me. And these are indeed particularly well played. Great singing too. As for the distance between post-Romantic performance and period performance style, well, that can't really be judged, either it works for you or it doesn't. If you do like period style, this is a great example of it. True, it keeps to Beethoven's metronome marks, and plays the needed repeats, but the parts that need to be slower are slower, and the parts that are faster still have plenty of time and space for the players to get it done, so if/when you become accustomed to it, there is a lot of listening pleasure here. :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

DavidRoss

Gosh -- it's Sunday and Gurn's listening to Beethoven's 9th. Whodathunkit!?
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: David M on June 14, 2013, 04:57:48 AM
Gurn, I see you have enjoyed Haitink's latest Ninth. I do consider it the best of his 4 I that know and like it a great deal. I always felt like he has held back in his earlier recordings and was mildly disappointed. The disappointment may have come from my own expectations as I love his French music, his Stravinsky and especially his Shostakovich.

One recent Ninth that stands out for me and not seen mentioned here is the Stanislaw Skrowaczewski/Saarbrucken Radio Symphony Orchestra on OEHMS Classics. This could go into a category called "Recent Ninths Definitely NOT Influenced by the Period Instrument Movement". Broad tempos (70 minutes overall), big sound and climaxes. Reminds me of Karl Bohm/WP 1970 (a favorite of mine).

A not-so-recent one, obscure, not mentioned, that I have a strange affection for: Zdenek Macal/Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra on Koss (from July 31, 1989). Very brisk tempos coming in at under 61 minutes. Incisive, has a sense of occasion, good sound.

I was glad to read in your conversation that a couple of my old favorites have gotten praise here, Fricsay and Kletski. I would have expected them to be forgotten these days.

Any interest in discussing that weird phenomena of Ninth's sung not "auf Deutsch"? I have a few: English (Weingartner/LSO 1926 and Stokowski/Philadelphia); French (Koussevitsky/ORTF); Czech (Lovro von Matacic/cpo) and Hebrew (Kubelik/Israel Philharmonic). One weird thing is that only the Weingartner version I have (on LYS 190) tells you it is not in German and it tells you in French (Chantee en anglais).

So I have enjoyed joining in and hope to do more so in the future.

Hi, David,
Well, you certainly have a leg up on me when it comes to 9ths! They haven't been my main focus, but I don't turn one down whenever I run across it. Part of my problem comes from being fussy about old stuff (don't really like it) and the other part from not knowing that a lot of recordings even exist.  Your "Stanislaw Skrowaczewski/Saarbrucken Radio Symphony Orchestra on OEHMS Classics" is a case in point. Although now that I know about it, I shall have it too. :)  There do seem to be a nearly endless number of recordings, even within the rather narrow parameters that I have set. I look forward to discussing some of the greater rarities with you.

Also curious about the non-German sung subset in your collection. I recently saw one sung in Russian, but unfirtunately didn't snap it up. It makes me wish that my Tokyo/ Wakasugi was sung in Japanese.... :)

Talk to you soon,
8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: DavidRoss on June 16, 2013, 07:39:01 AM
Gosh -- it's Sunday and Gurn's listening to Beethoven's 9th. Whodathunkit!?

It's what Sundays were made for, David. :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

DavidRoss

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 16, 2013, 07:44:29 AM
It's what Sundays were made for, David. :)
Well, my Sunday today is made for a leisurely brunch with the wife -- and, in honor of Fathers Day, no arguing before, during, or after (my fingers are crossed!). ;)
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: DavidRoss on June 16, 2013, 07:50:17 AM
Well, my Sunday today is made for a leisurely brunch with the wife -- and, in honor of Fathers Day, no arguing before, during, or after (my fingers are crossed!). ;)

:)  Good luck with that. I teed off at 6:50 this morning, I was back home by 10:00, now to relax for the day.

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Pat B

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 16, 2013, 07:30:45 AM
I've always found it interesting what a mixed reaction this recording receives, ranging from "it's no Furtwängler (good!)" to "it sounds too much like modern instruments to be HIP"... ::)   

Indeed. And after acquiring a couple other HIP/PI 9ths, I went back to Gardiner a couple of weeks ago. It's certainly not bad, but... let's just say my comments on it might not fit in with the spirit of this thread. (My thoughts on Zinman, an even more polarizing recording, would definitely not fit the spirit of this thread.)

So instead of belaboring that point, I just listened to the Immerseel '99 -- my third listen I think, maybe fourth, in two months -- and my initial impressions have not changed. It sounds bigger than the orchestra size (and other HIP versions) would suggest. I'm still a bit surprised by some relatively slow tempi in the 4th movement, but they work. The articulation, phrasing and balances throughout are excellent. This is one I enjoy very, very much.

:)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Pat B on June 16, 2013, 12:32:02 PM
Indeed. And after acquiring a couple other HIP/PI 9ths, I went back to Gardiner a couple of weeks ago. It's certainly not bad, but... let's just say my comments on it might not fit in with the spirit of this thread. (My thoughts on Zinman, an even more polarizing recording, would definitely not fit the spirit of this thread.)

So instead of belaboring that point, I just listened to the Immerseel '99 -- my third listen I think, maybe fourth, in two months -- and my initial impressions have not changed. It sounds bigger than the orchestra size (and other HIP versions) would suggest. I'm still a bit surprised by some relatively slow tempi in the 4th movement, but they work. The articulation, phrasing and balances throughout are excellent. This is one I enjoy very, very much.

:)

:)  Yes, this is the mit Freundschaft für alle thread on GMG.  When it comes to polarization, I always seem to come down in favor of the artist, possibly a failing on my part, but that's what keeps performances from becoming so homogenized. In the event, a lot of people rejected the main body of that approach, but some of the essence got passed along to the next generation of interpreters to take or leave, because the ground had been broken. Can't ask for more than that from an artistic effort.

I like Zinman as well as Gardiner. Miss that wonderful PI sound, but the remainder is good with me. I recall that you liked this Immerseel even better than his other one, which is saying a lot. Wish it was more generally available. :-\

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Pat B

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 16, 2013, 12:41:14 PM
I recall that you liked this Immerseel even better than his other one, which is saying a lot. Wish it was more generally available. :-\
`

I still haven't heard his later one from the Zig Zag cycle. That's on my list but probably a month or two away. My utterly unfounded speculation is that his 2 9ths are fairly similar. One of these days I'll report back on that...

Your listening approach is certainly no failing on your part. I respect it even though mine is a bit different. :cheers:

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Pat B on June 16, 2013, 04:34:04 PM
`

I still haven't heard his later one from the Zig Zag cycle. That's on my list but probably a month or two away. My utterly unfounded speculation is that his 2 9ths are fairly similar. One of these days I'll report back on that...

Your listening approach is certainly no failing on your part. I respect it even though mine is a bit different. :cheers:

Ah, I didn't realize that; I thought you already had the Z-Z set (it's Tops!) and had added the other later on. Well, at least the Z-Z is still fairly easy to obtain, and well worth the effort, if only for the fabulous 5th. :)

Aye, live and let live. ;)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Jay F

I bought this one, based on reading the recommendations here, and am now listening to it for the first time. I like it, but it doesn't knock my favorites (Bohm, HvK '77) off their pedestals.

[asin]B0000029RK[/asin]

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Jay F on June 21, 2013, 11:30:04 AM
I bought this one, based on reading the recommendations here, and am now listening to it for the first time. I like it, but it doesn't knock my favorites (Bohm, HvK '77) off their pedestals.

[asin]B0000029RK[/asin]

My experience is that favorites in this work hardly ever get  "knock...off their pedestals". All you are really doing is adding another version that you may or may not like as much, not replacing ones that you were imprinted on, as it were. So, I still think of my Karajan '63 as I did before I got 100 other versions to go with it. Simply enjoy each one for its strengths and savor that about it. :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gurn Blanston

Revisited an old friend today;



Well, not too old, but 5 or 6 years anyway. Always liked Mackerras, one of the finest conductors of the era. And his take on the 9th, whether with the Royal Liverpudlians, the OAE or home court with the Philharmonia/SCO in the wilds of Scotland is always just right to me. This version is not quite as smooth as earlier efforts, and I feel it is intentional and I do like it, rather edgy so to say. Superbly played and sung, this is a version to savor. I miss the guy already   :'(

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)