Headphones or speakers?

[Don]

I am forced to use headphones now, because my neighbours hear the music. For me speakers are really preferable. I try to listen with headphones now, but I really enjoy the music less. When I listen to speakers I always imagine my room is a lot bigger, like a concert hall, which makes it even more natural and big.
I really feel I need that space to enjoy music. Hopefully I get used to headphones and will enjoy music as much as I enjoy it with using speakers and having the space. Otherwise I have a problem and am forced to listen music much less. I just bought some better headphones I have now, hopefully that will work better.

I wish you good luck as you listen more to music on headphones.  Personally, I'm equally happy with headphones and speakers.  With speakers, the music does "expand" greatly, but with headphones there is a more intimate soundstage and musical details are more readily heard. 

[Henk]

I wish you good luck as you listen more to music on headphones.  Personally, I'm equally happy with headphones and speakers.  With speakers, the music does "expand" greatly, but with headphones there is a more intimate soundstage and musical details are more readily heard. 

Thanks, Don. Hopefully I just have to get used to it and appreciate it.

[Mark]

Henk, if you use a media player or hifi component (i.e. headphone amplifier) that has a crossfeed function, you'll enjoy listening through headphones a lot more. It retains the intimate soundstage of which Don speaks, but increases the sense of space ... while decreasing listening fatigue. Some say the effects are subtle. All I know is that it puts more 'air' around the music.

[DavidRoss]

I hope those work out well for you, Henk.  In addition to the virtue of privacy, headphones offer terrific value:  you can get a very good set of cans together with a very good headphone amp for well under $1000 US, the combination offering accuracy of tone, transparency, detail, and full-range frequency response that cannot be equalled for anywhere near the price by loudspeakers and the electronics to drive them.  

In general, except for near disposable utility when used for travel or exercise, I would not recommend cheap headphones--the reason being that very good headphones cost only a couple of hundred bucks more than cheap ones (unless your cheap ones are made by Bose, in which case they might cost more than good ones!), and will give you years of satisfaction, whereas the cheap ones will be a disappointment that will only cost you more in the long run as you'll eventually replace them with something better.

[Don]

Henk, if you use a media player or hifi component (i.e. headphone amplifier) that has a crossfeed function, you'll enjoy listening through headphones a lot more. It retains the intimate soundstage of which Don speaks, but increases the sense of space ... while decreasing listening fatigue. Some say the effects are subtle. All I know is that it puts more 'air' around the music.

The sense of space also expands significantly with headphones when listening to an SACD disc, assuming you use an SACD player.

[Henk]

Thanks for advicing, Mark and David.

I don't want to spend a lot of money only for headphones. Because the quality of listening may increase a little but I don't expect wonders. I think it's more important that I will get used to headphones. I think I just listened to music I didn't really like at that moment, which made me think the headphones were the reason for it. I'm glad I listen now to some music with headphones and enjoy it. Nevertheless I prefer speakers.

[bhodges]

Henk, just wanted to mention these Sennheiser 595 headphones, which are fantastic.  The sound has great space, depth and realism, and they are incredibly comfortable, with velvet earpads and a cushioned headpiece.  They rest on your head, rather than "squeezing" your head: I have worn them for 3-4 hours at a time, easily.  At www.headphone.com they sell for just under $200 (they list them for $259, but IIRC you call and they e-mail you the lower price).

I listen through speakers as well, but I have to confess that the sound from these is just as satisfying.

--Bruce 

[scarpia]

Thanks for advicing, Mark and David.

I don't want to spend a lot of money only for headphones. Because the quality of listening may increase a little but I don't expect wonders. I think it's more important that I will get used to headphones. I think I just listened to music I didn't really like at that moment, which made me think the headphones were the reason for it. I'm glad I listen now to some music with headphones and enjoy it. Nevertheless I prefer speakers.

You don't understand what Mark is saying.  One reason headphones sound artificial is that the left channel is heard only by the left ear, and visa versa.  When listening with speakers your left preferentially hears the left channel, and visa versa, but each ear also hears the opposite channel, with some delay and attenuation.  A headphone amp with cross-feed will duplicate this effect electronically, and make the experience of listening with headphones more similar to listening with speakers.

[Henk]

I hope those work out well for you, Henk.  In addition to the virtue of privacy, headphones offer terrific value:  you can get a very good set of cans together with a very good headphone amp for well under $1000 US, the combination offering accuracy of tone, transparency, detail, and full-range frequency response that cannot be equalled for anywhere near the price by loudspeakers and the electronics to drive them. 

In general, except for near disposable utility when used for travel or exercise, I would not recommend cheap headphones--the reason being that very good headphones cost only a couple of hundred bucks more than cheap ones (unless your cheap ones are made by Bose, in which case they might cost more than good ones!), and will give you years of satisfaction, whereas the cheap ones will be a disappointment that will only cost you more in the long run as you'll eventually replace them with something better.

Which are prefered by you?

[Henk]

You don't understand what Mark is saying.  One reason headphones sound artificial is that the left channel is heard only by the left ear, and visa versa.  When listening with speakers your left preferentially hears the left channel, and visa versa, but each ear also hears the opposite channel, with some delay and attenuation.  A headphone amp with cross-feed will duplicate this effect electronically, and make the experience of listening with headphones more similar to listening with speakers.

Thanks for explaining. But I can't offerd to spend 1000 bucks more. I'm curious about the effect, but probably this is something for later. But I hope I can listen to speakers then again. If there was a good hifi store here, I would have tried it.

[drogulus]

     

You don't understand what Mark is saying.  One reason headphones sound artificial is that the left channel is heard only by the left ear, and visa versa.  When listening with speakers your left preferentially hears the left channel, and visa versa, but each ear also hears the opposite channel, with some delay and attenuation.  A headphone amp with cross-feed will duplicate this effect electronically, and make the experience of listening with headphones more similar to listening with speakers.

      The same principle was used as long ago as the '70s by Bob Carver to increase the ambiance for speakers (it was called Sonic Holography). He designed such a circuit into the Phase Linear preamp. It also featured a "peak unlimiter/downward expander" to increase dynamic range. I don't know how well these features worked.

[Henk]

Henk, just wanted to mention these Sennheiser 595 headphones, which are fantastic.  The sound has great space, depth and realism, and they are incredibly comfortable, with velvet earpads and a cushioned headpiece.  They rest on your head, rather than "squeezing" your head: I have worn them for 3-4 hours at a time, easily.  At www.headphone.com they sell for just under $200 (they list them for $259, but IIRC you call and they e-mail you the lower price).

I listen through speakers as well, but I have to confess that the sound from these is just as satisfying.

--Bruce 

Bruce I hope the headphones I just ordered are just a good. Some reviewers, who also have listened with different Sennheisers, told the sound was different, less warm, but more transparent and also has great space. They prefered the Philips to the Sennheiser. I think in comfort it's not overclassed by the Sennheiser. They look quite the same:


This one costs $100. I may also buy a Sennheiser later or an AKG.

[bhodges]

Well, those look good, too.  (I haven't tried them so I don't know what they sound like.)

--Bruce

[scarpia]

Thanks for explaining. But I can't offerd to spend 1000 bucks more. I'm curious about the effect, but probably this is something for later. But I hope I can listen to speakers then again. If there was a good hifi store here, I would have tried it.

You won't need to spend $1000 to get this feature.  Headroom makes a small amplifier with crossfeed that costs $100 (plus $15 more if you want to use AC power).   For $160 you can get a version which can also receive audio from a USB port.  I don't have this model, but have another rather inexpensive amp from this same company (nla) that works very nicely.

http://www.headphone.com/products/headphone-amps/the-mobile-line/

Of course you can spend a lot more if you want something more impressive looking.

[Henk]

You won't need to spend $1000 to get this feature.  Headroom makes a small amplifier with crossfeed that costs $100 (plus $15 more if you want to use AC power).   For $160 you can get a version which can also receive audio from a USB port.  I don't have this model, but have another rather inexpensive amp from this same company (nla) that works very nicely.

http://www.headphone.com/products/headphone-amps/the-mobile-line/

Of course you can spend a lot more if you want something more impressive looking.

This makes it more interesting for me! What's your experience with it? Do you hear big differences? Does the sound really improve much? Isn't it just a gadget for audiophiles? Your explanation makes it reasonable why it will work and makes a real difference but how is it in practice?
Another question. Does it only work for portable players? Or can you just plug it in the cd-player in the headphones output and plug the headphones into this amp?

[Mark]

You don't understand what Mark is saying.  One reason headphones sound artificial is that the left channel is heard only by the left ear, and visa versa.  When listening with speakers your left preferentially hears the left channel, and visa versa, but each ear also hears the opposite channel, with some delay and attenuation.  A headphone amp with cross-feed will duplicate this effect electronically, and make the experience of listening with headphones more similar to listening with speakers.

Thanks for explaining in more detail.

[scarpia]

This makes it more interesting for me! What's your experience with it? Do you hear big differences? Does the sound really improve much? Isn't it just a gadget for audiophiles?

It is not a dramatic effect, but it makes the sound more natural.

Here is something to try.  Listen to a mono recording (or use the mono setting on your amp) and put only one earphone on your head instead of two.  When you brain receives a signal from one ear only it doesn't know what to do with it.  I perceive it as somehow hollow and nonlocalized.  That's what can happen with headphones if the stereo separation is too strong and individual instruments are coming from only one side.  On some recordings that have a lot of reverberation and cross-feed built into the mix the improvement from the cross-feed feature is negligible.  But for particularly dry, close miked recordings, the cross-feed amplifier can make an unlistenable recording listenable.

[Henk]

It is not a dramatic effect, but it makes the sound more natural.

Here is something to try.  Listen to a mono recording (or use the mono setting on your amp) and put only one earphone on your head instead of two.  When you brain receives a signal from one ear only it doesn't know what to do with it.  I perceive it as somehow hollow and nonlocalized.  That's what can happen with headphones if the stereo separation is too strong and individual instruments are coming from only one side.  On some recordings that have a lot of reverberation and cross-feed built into the mix the improvement from the cross-feed feature is negligible.  But for particularly dry, close miked recordings, the cross-feed amplifier can make an unlistenable recording listenable.

I can imagine it. But doesn't make this amp just a mono stereo from a stereo record? The delay must be very little.
Is the sound also not transferred through the skull, which makes the sound "more natural".

Last question. Does it only work for portable players? Or can you just plug it in the cd-player in the headphones output and plug the headphones into this amp?

[Mark]

Henk, search for, download and install foobar2000. Then search for and add in its crossfeed component. Set it up, plug in your headphones and give it a try. I guarantee you'll hear a more natural sound from some recordings, as scarpia rightly says.

[scarpia]

I can imagine it. But doesn't make this amp just a mono stereo from a stereo record? The delay must be very little.
Is the sound also not transferred through the skull, which makes the sound "more natural".

The delay is small but significant.  Your brain uses the small time delays between your ears to localize sounds.

Last question. Does it only work for portable players? Or can you just plug it in the cd-player in the headphones output and plug the headphones into this amp?

The model I have connects to line-out on a CD player or preamplifier.  The one for portable probably runs off of the headphone output of the player, but I assume it could just as well be driven by the headphone output of a CD player or amplifier.