Opera collection, DVD vs CD percentage

[T-C]

But translate that into a different medium - small screen, no atmosphere, no real people - and that's a different situation completely.

Of course,  I love live performances, but you cannot take them home and watch again sometime later...On the other hand, the DVD enables you to get all kind of close-ups that can be very efficient if you have good singers-actors or all kind of details that you cannot see from the 20th row....

Take for example the two big duets in Massenet's opera Manon as performed by Natalie Dessay and Rolando Villazon in the Virgin Classics DVD. I have a few recordings of this opera but this is for me the most successful rendering of these duets musically and the visual side of the performance adds a lot to the excitement because these are really two excellent actors. 

I'm not going to allow anyone to take my Cadmus & Hermione away, nor my Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare.

If you liked the Cadmus & Hermione, you really ought to try another beautiful Lully opera production on DVD: Persée (Euroarts)

[Tsaraslondon]

And what about plays? One can read a play and create a production in his imagination... Is this a worthy replacement for a theater stage? Can everyone visualize the playing quality of the greatest actors?

Actually one playwright, Alfred De Musset, did precisely that. All his plays were written purely for reading, leaving the reader to play out the fantastic scenes, most of which could never be represented on stage, in their imagination. Of course, writing in the early nineteenth century, film would hardly have been an option. 

Please note that I also made the point that neither DVD or CD can be a replacement for the 'live' experience. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of productions, when I've thought I'd rather be at home, listening to the CDs.

[Elgarian]

Of course,  I love live performances, but you cannot take them home and watch again sometime later...

Yes, but we need to be careful here or we'll just go round in circles.  The question is whether the DVD or the CD (plus imagined visuals) provides the best experience, and the answer is different for each of us. Like DavidRoss and Tsaraslondon, I'm not trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking, and I seriously wish you great and lasting pleasure from your DVDs.

Take for example the two big duets in Massenet's opera Manon as performed by Natalie Dessay and Rolando Villazon in the Virgin Classics DVD. I have a few recordings of this opera but this is for me the most successful rendering of these duets musically and the visual side of the performance adds a lot to the excitement because these are really two excellent actors.

You happen there to have chosen the third DVD that I wouldn't let them take away from me. I agree, it's thoroughly convincing, brilliantly produced, and engrossing in every way. [The fourth, for anyone tempted to enquire, would be the Christie Les Indes Galantes.]

If you liked the Cadmus & Hermione, you really ought to try another beautiful Lully opera production on DVD: Persée (Euroarts)

I own it, and it doesn't work for me - I bought it with great expectations, but wish I hadn't. When I watch it, I'm in the situation DavidRoss described, thinking 'it's just a bunch of hammy actors in funny costumes'. There's something odd about the sound balance too ...

I should say that I didn't just like Cadmus; I was entranced by it; besotted with it; it made me cry; it made me laugh; it made me long to have been there. I felt as close as I shall ever feel to knowing how it is to be entertained like the Sun King himself. I have never seen so much conveyed by hand movements so slight (perfect kind of expressiveness for DVD, as you say). I think it's the most wonderful opera DVD I have ever seen. (Not that I've seen all that many.) BUT ALSO .... the way they scroll the credits over the footage of the cast taking their bows (how dare they be so disrespectful to such supreme performers?) makes me want to throw the TV out of the window.

[DavidRoss]

I am totally aware of the fact that we are talking here about audio vs. audio+video recordings. I hope we can agree that the reservations a few people mentioned here about DVDs do not concern the DVD technology but rather in their opinion, the not sufficient quality of the stage visualization, so in this aspect, there is no difference between live stage performances and those recorded on DVD.

Nope, I don't agree--nor do I care to go over the same ground a third time.  Thanks for the suggestions re. DVDs you particularly enjoy.

The fourth, for anyone tempted to enquire, would be the Christie Les Indes Galantes.

The excerpts I've seen from that on youtube are delightful.  

[Elgarian]

The excerpts I've seen from that [Les Indes Galantes] on youtube are delightful.  

When my wife and I need something to cheer us up, we watch the last half-hour of Les Indes Galantes. It's a guaranteed happy pill. And when it ends, we cry no, no, keep going, keep going ...

[Anne]

T-C, for someone whose native language is not English, you do a beautiful job of using it.  I can't remember the last time I saw an error in your writing.  In fact I can't remember ever seeing an error.  The information you impart to this board is so valuable that I would urge you to give us your thoughts and hang the language problems.

[T-C]

T-C, for someone whose native language is not English, you do a beautiful job of using it. 

Thanks, Anne.

I own it, and it doesn't work for me - I bought it with great expectations, but wish I hadn't. When I watch it, I'm in the situation DavidRoss described, thinking 'it's just a bunch of hammy actors in funny costumes'. There's something odd about the sound balance too ...

Ok, I give up my recommendation for Persee...

The Canadian Opera Atelier tried here to restore the style of the opera performances held at Lully's time and I think they have done a beautiful job. I agree that there is an imperfection in the sound balance because the continuo section is quite loud, but if you are familiar with other recordings that are conducted by Herve Niquet, which is for my taste one of the best French baroque conductors, he usually have a prominent continuo section which gives the music a strong feeling of vitality.

Vincent Dumestre and Benjamin Lazar have done an equally impressive job in recreating the atmosphere of the French baroque in Lully lifetime and maybe they have done it in a more authentic way. But I think that musically, Persse is a greater opera when compared to the early Cadmus et Hermione. Anyhow, if you enjoyed this performance you will probably like Dumestre and Lazar collaboration in Moliere-Lully Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme, which is also available on an Alpha DVD.

[Elgarian]

Anyhow, if you enjoyed this performance you will probably like Dumestre and Lazar collaboration in Moliere-Lully Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme, which is also available on an Alpha DVD.

I've certainly thought about buying that, but my understanding is that there's much less music in it - so although I'm sure the production will be superb, I think it's likely not to be quite the thing for me. And these things are usually expensive, so disappointment becomes a more significant business. The DVD gathering dust on my shelf, watched half-heartedly only once, has usurped the place of a CD set I would almost certainly have loved and listened to many times.

[DarkAngel]

Another advantage for newer opera DVDs............background featurettes

Was watching this new MET production La Boheme:



Renee Fleming does a couple featurettes at intermissions talking to lead singers bout how they approach singing La Boheme
and providing some interesting general commentary.

Also shows how 80 stage hands quickly change sets between scences either moving sections offstage or lifting them up in ceiling above crowd sight lines, very interesting.......especially huge sets like Latin Quarter/Cafe Momus

So for me yet another reason to purchase all newer opera performances in DVD format

[DarkAngel]

TC & Elgarian
I checked out some of those baroque operas you just mentioned on youtube.......
I was amazed at what I saw, and my wallet has suffered considerable damage as a result 

Order has been placed for:

     

All DVD format, spread things around with Monteverdi, Rameau, Lully, and Handel

BTW those Lully operas on Alpha label are extemely expensive new and used, must pass for now.......
I was intrigued by the description of Cadmus above

[mc ukrneal]

Total number of operas: Not sure - probably in the realm of 80-100. Of those, ZERO DVD, 100% CD. I find that a DVD requires more time (at least in my mind).

[Brünnhilde forever]

Another advantage for newer opera DVDs............background featurettes

I was wondering if CD producers have caught on to the background features you mentioned because the issue of Shostakovich Symphony No. 4 I received yesterday, includes as separate disc a DVD! It's a super documentary with Haitink conducting the Chicago SO interspersed with historical footage of the industrial and political developments in the then Soviet Union presented by a commentator and an actor. Not enough, it also has an informative lengthy interview with Bernard Haitink.

In fact at first I became aware of the DVD only after that second disc wouldn't play on my CD player! A few choice words, pushing buttons on the machine and eventual reading of the information on the case brought the intended results. Outstanding production issued by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra's very own label: CSO-Resound.

[T-C]

I checked out some of those baroque operas you just mentioned on youtube.......

Congratulations!

Here are a few more recommendations for Baroque opera DVDs, in case your wallet needs further damage...

Rameau : Platee – Minkowski (Kultur) This DVD is really outstanding!
Rameau : Les Paladins – Christie (Opus Arte)
Monteverdi : L'Orfeo – Stubbs (Opus Arte)
Monteverdi : L'incoronazione di Poppea – Minkowski (Bel Air)
Monteverdi : Il Ritorno d'Ulisse in Patria – Harnoncourt (Arthaus)
Handel : Rodelinda – Christie (Kultur)
Handel : Hercules – Christie (Bel Air)
Handel : Tamerlano – McCreesh (Opus Arte)
Handel : Ariodante – Curtis (Dynamic)
Handel : Teseo – Katschner (Arthaus)
Landi : Sant' Alessio – Christie (Virgin)

[Brünnhilde forever]

But T-C you missed one of the best Handel opera DVDs:

Alcina, Staatsorchester Stuttgart with Catherine Naglestad as the sorceress Alcina. Her rendition of the aria Ah, mio cor, is breathtaking, spine-chilling!

[Elgarian]

Order has been placed for:

One can of course never be certain of how someone else will respond, but I've never encountered a bad word regarding this Les Indes Galantes. There are, it's true, in its long unfolding of events, a few moments when one might get a bit restless (I find, after three viewings, that the Aztecs go on just a little too long, myself); but those people so clearly loved what they were doing, and were so astoundingly good at doing it, and the whole production bristles with so much sympathetic ingenuity, and Danielle de Niese is so completely adorable (I do believe that Hebe is running the whole show, no really, I do), and Patricia Petibon is such a warmly humorous Red Indian princess, and Christie enriches every moment with such vibrant and rich orchestral playing, that I think not to respond to it one would have to be something like a block of wood or a stone. (Not that there aren't some very fine blocks of wood and stones - I won't hear a word said against them.)

BTW those Lully operas on Alpha label are extemely expensive new and used, must pass for now.......
I was intrigued by the description of Cadmus above

There're some bits of Cadmus on youtube somewhere. Yes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytJHCagq33I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDuHF3rMKS0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UQFO8Z6oM8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU4uK6_rUBE

I wrote a short review of it in another forum, which I'll transcribe here:

"I hardly know what to say. I'm haunted by it. Images from it keep floating into my head at quiet moments. The expressive gestures - the focus on the hands of Cadmus and Hermione which, as the opera evolves, move closer and closer without touching until, finally ... they do. I have never seen hands used with such expressive power. And that is just one tiny aspect of this production. The finale is so formal, and yet so moving. The combination of Lully's superb music and the shifting tableau of characters on stage is perfect; I'll tell you, I found tears hovering all the way through the finale - not the gut-wrenching emotionalism of a Puccini opera, but something far more delicate, arising from the sense of great care lavished on every detail, the perfection of the way it's blended with the music. Yes, it has a 'happy ending' - but what's so moving is not so much the happy fate of the characters, but the astounding perfection of the art, and the sense of privilege at being able to see something so perfectly formed, both visually and musically. We all now can watch something made, with no expense or effort spared, for a King. And not just any king at that, but the Sun King himself."

So yes, it's expensive. But it is the best opera DVD I've ever seen.

[Elgarian]

Here are a few more recommendations for Baroque opera DVDs, in case your wallet needs further damage...
...
Handel : Rodelinda – Christie (Kultur)
Handel : Hercules – Christie (Bel Air)
Handel : Tamerlano – McCreesh (Opus Arte)
Handel : Ariodante – Curtis (Dynamic)
Handel : Teseo – Katschner (Arthaus)
...

T_C - I'd like to ask you a very difficult, maybe impossible, question. Bearing in mind my resistiveness to opera DVDs, and yet in spite of that, my love of the Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare, and my wish to have another really good Handel opera on DVD (if I can find one), which, from this list of yours of Handel DVDs, would you say comes closest to matching the Giulio? Do any of them come even close?

[T-C]

But T-C you missed one of the best Handel opera DVDs:
Alcina, Staatsorchester Stuttgart

Lis, this is a partial list. DarkAngel has already a damaged wallet...

Bearing in mind my resistiveness to opera DVDs, and yet in spite of that, my love of the Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare, and my wish to have another really good Handel opera on DVD (if I can find one), which, from this list of yours of Handel DVDs, would you say comes closest to matching the Giulio? Do any of them come even close?

All those DVDs are quite different from Glyndebourne's Gulio Cesare, but I think that every one of them is very good. But I don't know if you will like them...

Maybe you should try the Glyndebourne Rodelinda. This is one of Handel's greatest operas and from a musical point of view the performance is excellent, maybe the best there is. Visually the production is less colorful, but very effective.

And I have to add the Glyndobourne Theodora to the list...

[Brünnhilde forever]

I am not T-C and you did not ask me, but I'll tell you my choice anyhow:

Tamerlano!

It's a close one with Alcina but you might not appreciate the change of setting from Handel's epoch to the contemporary one.  

[Siedler]

BTW those Lully operas on Alpha label are extemely expensive new and used, must pass for now.......
I was intrigued by the description of Cadmus above

Presto Classical seems to have a pretty good deal on Cadmus (£21.93+pp):
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/work.php?id=137248&crawl=no

[DarkAngel]

I wrote a short review of it in another forum, which I'll transcribe here:

"I hardly know what to say. I'm haunted by it. Images from it keep floating into my head at quiet moments. The expressive gestures - the focus on the hands of Cadmus and Hermione which, as the opera evolves, move closer and closer without touching until, finally ... they do. I have never seen hands used with such expressive power. And that is just one tiny aspect of this production. The finale is so formal, and yet so moving. The combination of Lully's superb music and the shifting tableau of characters on stage is perfect; I'll tell you, I found tears hovering all the way through the finale - not the gut-wrenching emotionalism of a Puccini opera, but something far more delicate, arising from the sense of great care lavished on every detail, the perfection of the way it's blended with the music. Yes, it has a 'happy ending' - but what's so moving is not so much the happy fate of the characters, but the astounding perfection of the art, and the sense of privilege at being able to see something so perfectly formed, both visually and musically. We all now can watch something made, with no expense or effort spared, for a King. And not just any king at that, but the Sun King himself."

So yes, it's expensive. But it is the best opera DVD I've ever seen.

I was concerned that the overall lighting for Cadmus would be too dim/dark since they were trying to replicate real conditions under which Lully and the Sun King would view these works using candles/reflectors etc..........is the lighting adequate?

Seems a bit extreme to not use good modern lighting to fully show off all the elaborate costume designs