Myths about Composers

[Sorin Eushayson]

Absurd, of course.  However, there is one widely believed myth about Wagner:  that he was a great composer.

A myth many seem to buy into for reasons unknown...  0:)

[Guido]

5. Shostakovich was a Communist hack who followed the party line. (old myth)

6. Shostakovich was a closet dissident who constantly encoded subsersive anti-government meanings in his work. (new myth)

What's wrong with no.6? I mean I don't think that the sentence perfectly describes his situation, but it is not far off the mark...

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

 Bruckner was a simpleton and had no understanding of correct form. His music is entirely derivative of Beethoven, Schubert and Wagner. He was the Forrest Gump of music. In fact, Bruckner,though somewhat naive and childlike, was also a good friend of eminent scientists and physicians, and was very interested and knowledgable about these things.  

That's another one I wanted to mention. Bruckner was really a victim of social snobbery. He displayed the outward signs of being a country bumpkin (accent, clothing, lack of social graces, as well as some strange personal habits), and was easy to take advantage of. However, he had a lively intellect and was interested in a variety of things, not just music and religion. He came from a family of schoolteachers; that must have left a mark on him.

However, your points about Strauss relate to people's personal evaluations of his music - they're not really "myths" (demonstrable falsehoods).

What's wrong with no.6? I mean I don't think that the sentence perfectly describes his situation, but it is not far off the mark...

No. 6 is wrong because it relies too much on speculation, as well as on Volkov's dubious book Testimony. To take one example, I have heard people confidently assert that the 3-note "rapping" motif in the 8th String Quartet represents the secret police knocking on their victims' doors in the middle of the night. There is no evidence to back this up; it is just an attempt at mind-reading.

[The Six]

No. 6 is wrong because it relies too much on speculation, as well as on Volkov's dubious book Testimony. To take one example, I have heard people confidently assert that the 3-note "rapping" motif in the 8th String Quartet represents the secret police knocking on their victims' doors in the middle of the night. There is no evidence to back this up; it is just an attempt at mind-reading.

There's no evidence against it, either, so you can't declare it a myth. Who knows what Shostakovich was thinking?

[Josquin des Prez]

Other myths: Bruckner was a simpleton and had no understanding of correct form. His music is entirely derivative of Beethoven, Schubert and Wagner. He was the Forrest Gump of music. In fact, Bruckner,though somewhat naive and childlike, was also a good friend of eminent scientists and physicians, and was very interested and knowledgable about these things. His symphonies are perfectly logical and coherent,in their own way.

Of all the proponents of new music at the time, Bruckner is the only one who seemed to have made a favorable impression on Brahms after the first time they met. Before that they were on a war path (or rather, Brahms was on a war path, Bruckner was too timid to be anything but a passive victim of the invectives hurled at him), but once the sat together, after a moment of silence, an embarrassed laugh, no more ill feelings.

[Guido]

No. 6 is wrong because it relies too much on speculation, as well as on Volkov's dubious book Testimony. To take one example, I have heard people confidently assert that the 3-note "rapping" motif in the 8th String Quartet represents the secret police knocking on their victims' doors in the middle of the night. There is no evidence to back this up; it is just an attempt at mind-reading.

Right, but there is plenty from after the Soviet era - lots of musicians who knew him personally. The ones I know best are Rsotropovich's stories - the most famous being that Shostakovich told him that he had hidden a secret in the fourth movement of the first cello concerto, and when Rostropovich said he hadn't spotted it, Shostakovich revealed that he had woven in the tune of Stalin's favourite folk song into the texture in various places - very subtle but the mocking tone is clear.

[DavidRoss]

A myth many seem to buy into for reasons unknown...  0:)

Brainwashing and fear of others' disapproval, I suspect.  See the fable known as The Emperor's New Clothes. 

[Florestan]

Brainwashing and fear of others' disapproval, I suspect.  See the fable known as The Emperor's New Clothes. 

Wagner is a clear case of "love it or hate it",  but I think that both his fanatics and his detractors are wrong. Better take the middle road, as I do: The Sailors' Chorus or The Arrival of The Knights now and then make a great listening.  0:)

[Brian]

  Richard Strauss composed only a handful of works that are any good,and declined greatly as a composer after Der Rosenkavalier.His later operas are failures and worthless.His music is cheap, bombastic,tawdry, superficial, and cloyingly sentimental. In fact, Strauss never declined at all. He is a very great composer. His later operas,such as Die Schweigsame Frau, Daphne, Friedenstag, Die Agyptische Helena,
etc,are very underrated.

Don't forget Metamorphosen. I am a poor, lonely soul, who argues with all his heart but with no compatriots whatsoever (and scarcely any evidence) that Metamorphosen is the greatest minimalist work of all time - at least insofar as it captures the spirit and aspirations of minimalism, if not the formal and rather silly rules.

[Brian]

There's no evidence against it, either, so you can't declare it a myth. Who knows what Shostakovich was thinking?

I think the problem is once we are clued in to a small set of examples of Shostakovich's political dissent expressed in his music, then some ambitious musicologists who want to show off their talents are ready to conduct a sort of reverse witch hunt - maybe call it a hero hunt - where they find more evidence of his hatred of the Communists at every turn. I don't doubt Shostakovich was clever enough to leave codes, but like "the Bible Code," I'm sure there are plenty of patterns we might see or make up, that he didn't put there (e.g. the secret police knocking, which is a rather crude touch for such an obviously great quartet...).

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I think the problem is once we are clued in to a small set of examples of Shostakovich's political dissent expressed in his music, then some ambitious musicologists who want to show off their talents are ready to conduct a sort of reverse witch hunt - maybe call it a hero hunt - where they find more evidence of his hatred of the Communists at every turn.

Yes. I think it was Ian MacDonald who represented the ne plus ultra of this tendency, analyzing DSCH compositions bar by bar for their hidden political messages.

The thing about these myths is that they contain an element of truth. Bach and Mahler really did achieve much more popularity after death than in life; Mozart really could compose music in his head; Shostakovich really did mock the authorities from time to time; etc. But then this element of truth is blown up to the point where it creates a false overall impression.

[Florestan]

The thing about these myths is that they contain an element of truth. Bach and Mahler really did achieve much more popularity after death than in life; Mozart really could compose music in his head; Shostakovich really did mock the authorities from time to time; etc. But then this element of truth is blown up to the point where it creates a false overall impression.

The best lie is that which is closest to truth. 

[karlhenning]

Bring that hammer down, Andrei! 

[Symphonien]

Don't forget Metamorphosen. I am a poor, lonely soul, who argues with all his heart but with no compatriots whatsoever (and scarcely any evidence) that Metamorphosen is the greatest minimalist work of all time - at least insofar as it captures the spirit and aspirations of minimalism, if not the formal and rather silly rules.

Ok, well I'm going to have to ask how does Metamorphosen have anything to do with minimalism? And where did you hear that minimalism had any "formal rules"?

[techniquest]

There's a famous story about him once having been accused of being a homosexual, which he denied, saying that he was not a homosexual but a pederast.

...Which, in those days, was far less heinous than being gay (see Tchaikovsky references). The same was apparantly true of Poulenc and John Ireland.

[Bunny]

There's a famous story about him once having been accused of being a homosexual, which he denied, saying that he was not a homosexual but a pederast

.

...Which, in those days, was far less heinous than being gay (see Tchaikovsky references). The same was apparantly true of Poulenc and John Ireland.

Only for those who didn't know the definition of pederast. 

Talking about myths, Thomas Mann is supposed to have told the story when he lived in Hollywood of meeting Mahler in drag on a train going back to Vienna from a vacation in Italy.  That's supposed to have been his inspiration for Death in Venice.

[Lethevich]

Speaking of Mahler, there is a myth (which the composer refused to refute, IIRC) of Sorabji going to see the premiere of Mahler's 6th symphony.

[Bunny]

Speaking of Mahler, there is a myth (which the composer refused to refute, IIRC) of Sorabji going to see the premiere of Mahler's 6th symphony.

Alma's memoirs of her life with the composer as well as her life after are books filled myths.   

[Superhorn]

  If Sorabji had gone to the premiere of the Mahler 6th, he would have been only about 14, and according to what I have read of him, he left England only once in his lifetime, to visit Paris.
  He's a fascinating individual. Have you ever read the book of his collected critical writings?  They're really absorbing. You'll probably disagree with a lot of his opinions, but the book is a great read.
I don't know if this is still in print; it probably isn't. But it's worth looking for.

[Lethevich]

  If Sorabji had gone to the premiere of the Mahler 6th, he would have been only about 14, and according to what I have read of him, he left England only once in his lifetime, to visit Paris.
  He's a fascinating individual. Have you ever read the book of his collected critical writings?  They're really absorbing. You'll probably disagree with a lot of his opinions, but the book is a great read.
I don't know if this is still in print; it probably isn't. But it's worth looking for.

Nope, only a biography, although I will be on the look out for the collection because, as you say, he was a very strange and interesting individual.