Leonard Bernstein 1918-1990

[vers la flamme]

It is definitely not the NY Phil, and hasn't never been identified as an established orchestra.  My guess is that since the instrumental forces are unique to the work the ensemble was put together especially for the recording, culled from first-call studio and orchestral players who normally work in pit orchestras and ad hoc recordings/performances.

Interesting. Having listened to a few tracks from this and a few other recordings on break at work today, I have determined that to my ears, this is totally Broadway musical music, which is absolutely not my bag at all, and never has been. But something draws me in a little deeper with my curiosity, and I feel like I owe it to myself to explore this music in further depth, because I think I believe in its importance as a cultural artifact of its time and place (maybe thanks in part to your article, San Antone), and that intrigues me. I think I will try and order a recording of it on disc when things settle down a bit. I am not sure how online sellers (or the postal service, for that matter) are being affected by the virus response things that are happening in the world, but it might be wise to cull my spending on music in any case.

[San Antone]

Interesting. Having listened to a few tracks from this and a few other recordings on break at work today, I have determined that to my ears, this is totally Broadway musical music, which is absolutely not my bag at all, and never has been. But something draws me in a little deeper with my curiosity, and I feel like I owe it to myself to explore this music in further depth, because I think I believe in its importance as a cultural artifact of its time and place (maybe thanks in part to your article, San Antone), and that intrigues me. I think I will try and order a recording of it on disc when things settle down a bit. I am not sure how online sellers (or the postal service, for that matter) are being affected by the virus response things that are happening in the world, but it might be wise to cull my spending on music in any case.

There are definitely Broadway musical style sections/songs - but there are also sections which sound to me outside of the Broadway genre.  The three Orchestral Meditations and the "Almighty Father" Prayer for the Congregation, for example.  Also, the "Agnus Dei" leading into the Celebrant's long solo "Things Get Broken" and then the concluding Pax: Communion "Secret Songs", all are Bernstein's style of incorporating classical tropes into accessible music.

Do give it more time, and try to listen straight through, since the work does pay off with an effective closing.

[Mirror Image]

Do give it more time, and try to listen straight through, since the work does pay off with an effective closing.

I wouldn't suggest anyone listen to Mass straight through without some kind of break. It can become fatiguing.

[San Antone]

I wouldn't suggest anyone listen to Mass straight through without some kind of break. It can become fatiguing.

That may have been your experience.  But I have listened to it straight through six times in the last two weeks - but it helps to be following the score.  There is a natural place to take a short (15 min.) intermission, but yes, I strongly suggest listening to it straight through.  Mass can only truly be appreciated as a whole uninterrupted experience, which is greater than a sum of its parts.

[Roasted Swan]

There are definitely Broadway musical style sections/songs - but there are also sections which sound to me outside of the Broadway genre.  The three Orchestral Meditations and the "Almighty Father" Prayer for the Congregation, for example.  Also, the "Agnus Dei" leading into the Celebrant's long solo "Things Get Broken" and then the concluding Pax: Communion "Secret Songs", all are Bernstein's style of incorporating classical tropes into accessible music.

Do give it more time, and try to listen straight through, since the work does pay off with an effective closing.

+1 for all you say above but I do get a bit hot under the collar when Broadway/Musical Theatre is referenced in a pejorative way.  The irony is "high brow" music looks down on MT as 'less than' opera and then pop shows like "The Voice" or "The X factor" then use MT as an ultimate form of insult if they deem a singer too emotional or somesuch.  As ever the truth is there are good and bad MT songs and performers.  It happens that Bernstein wrote some of the best MT material ever bar none.  I find parts of Mass consciously populist but not MT per se and if they are - so what!

[San Antone]

+1 for all you say above but I do get a bit hot under the collar when Broadway/Musical Theatre is referenced in a pejorative way.  The irony is "high brow" music looks down on MT as 'less than' opera and then pop shows like "The Voice" or "The X factor" then use MT as an ultimate form of insult if they deem a singer too emotional or somesuch.  As ever the truth is there are good and bad MT songs and performers.  It happens that Bernstein wrote some of the best MT material ever bar none.  I find parts of Mass consciously populist but not MT per se and if they are - so what!

I agree with you.  Musical Theater is a unique American art form, and when done at its highest level, Stephen Sondheim, Gershwin, Bernstein, Marc Blitzstein, Adam Guettel (The Light in the Plaza, Myths and Hymns, Floyd Collins), and others it is certainly no less artful than opera.  In fact, I think the Musical Theater is America's form of opera.

But of course, Broadway has so commercialized itself what with shows based on movies and rock songs there is a real death of good musical theater.  You must look Off-Off Broadway, and elsewhere.

[vers la flamme]

+1 for all you say above but I do get a bit hot under the collar when Broadway/Musical Theatre is referenced in a pejorative way.  The irony is "high brow" music looks down on MT as 'less than' opera and then pop shows like "The Voice" or "The X factor" then use MT as an ultimate form of insult if they deem a singer too emotional or somesuch.  As ever the truth is there are good and bad MT songs and performers.  It happens that Bernstein wrote some of the best MT material ever bar none.  I find parts of Mass consciously populist but not MT per se and if they are - so what!

Hey, I didn't mean to imply that at all! I did NOT use the term pejoratively, only descriptively. I only said that it's not for me and never has been. I have never seen a musical that I've liked. It's not bad music by any means, it's just not for me. Hope this has cleared up my perspective. I have no disrespect for the genre.

@San Antone, when I get my hands on a disc I will definitely listen to it straight through once or twice (at least; more, of course, if I end up liking it).

Do you own the score? Or is it available freely, somewhere...? I would love to look at it.

[Mirror Image]

That may have been your experience.  But I have listened to it straight through six times in the last two weeks - but it helps to be following the score.  There is a natural place to take a short (15 min.) intermission, but yes, I strongly suggest listening to it straight through.  Mass can only truly be appreciated as a whole uninterrupted experience, which is greater than a sum of its parts.

Whatever floats your musical boat. The last time I tried listening to Mass, I ended up turning it off. I find it to be a cluttered mess. For me, West Side Story is Bernstein's masterpiece.

[Karl Henning]

I wouldn't suggest anyone listen to Mass straight through without some kind of break. It can become fatiguing.

Yet, I think that is how I shall need to assail it.

[San Antone]

@San Antone, when I get my hands on a disc I will definitely listen to it straight through once or twice (at least; more, of course, if I end up liking it).

Do you own the score? Or is it available freely, somewhere...? I would love to look at it.

I have the vocal score, which actually has a lot of extra instrumental detail beyond piano with voices.  Boosey & Hawkes is the distributor for Bernstein's music, which is published by the Leonard Bernstein Music Publishing Co.  The full score is only available for rental, for productions.

[San Antone]

Whatever floats your musical boat. The last time I tried listening to Mass, I ended up turning it off. I find it to be a cluttered mess. For me, West Side Story is Bernstein's masterpiece.

Oh, I am well aware that there are people for whom Mass does not speak to, it has become a cliche for that kind of thing to be said. 

If Mass does not "float your musical boat" so be it, God knows there are works or composers you rave about for whom I don't share your enthusiasm.  But I also don't make a point of flaunting my low opinion on a thread devoted to that composer.

[Mirror Image]

Oh, I am well aware that there are people for whom Mass does not speak to, it has become a cliche for that kind of thing to be said. 

If Mass does not "float your musical boat" so be it, God knows there are works or composers you rave about for whom I don't share your enthusiasm.  But I also don't make a point of flaunting my low opinion on a thread devoted to that composer.

Well, the difference here is I like Bernstein's music, but I just don't like the Mass. I'll bash it as I please.

[Roasted Swan]

I agree with you.  Musical Theater is a unique American art form, and when done at its highest level, Stephen Sondheim, Gershwin, Bernstein, Marc Blitzstein, Adam Guettel (The Light in the Plaza, Myths and Hymns, Floyd Collins), and others it is certainly no less artful than opera.  In fact, I think the Musical Theater is America's form of opera.

But of course, Broadway has so commercialized itself what with shows based on movies and rock songs there is a real death of good musical theater.  You must look Off-Off Broadway, and elsewhere.

Absolute agreement with everything you write.  All I would add is Jason Robert Brown to the list of current top top Broadway composers.  Happened to listen to his "The Last Five Years" today which is sophisticated powerful and moving.  A simple story - mapping a relationship over its 5 year course from first meeting to final separation.  BUT, the dramatic conceit is the woman sings her songs starting at the end of the affair and ending with the beginning while the man (its just a two hander) starts at the beginning and ends with the end - they only sing together once - half way through when their narrative arcs intersect.  Brown's "Parade" is one of the GREAT pieces of theatre of the last 25 years.  Also his "Songs for a New World" is a kind of theatrical song cycle with some remarkable songs including the closing "Flying Home" which is the spirit of a soldier who has been killed on active service abroad being flown home.....  Adam Guettel's "Myths & Hymns" is more a concept album than show but of incredible poetry and power - the song "Come to Jesus" is as powerful as anything I know (its NOT about religion!).

Read an article today about Spielberg's new version of West Side Story.  It looks and sounds very exciting.  Updated script and new choreography (great as Jerry Robbins' choreo is, its time to be updated).

[San Antone]

Absolute agreement with everything you write.  All I would add is Jason Robert Brown to the list of current top top Broadway composers.  Happened to listen to his "The Last Five Years" today which is sophisticated powerful and moving.  A simple story - mapping a relationship over its 5 year course from first meeting to final separation.  BUT, the dramatic conceit is the woman sings her songs starting at the end of the affair and ending with the beginning while the man (its just a two hander) starts at the beginning and ends with the end - they only sing together once - half way through when their narrative arcs intersect.  Brown's "Parade" is one of the GREAT pieces of theatre of the last 25 years.  Also his "Songs for a New World" is a kind of theatrical song cycle with some remarkable songs including the closing "Flying Home" which is the spirit of a soldier who has been killed on active service abroad being flown home.....  Adam Guettel's "Myths & Hymns" is more a concept album than show but of incredible poetry and power - the song "Come to Jesus" is as powerful as anything I know (its NOT about religion!).

Read an article today about Spielberg's new version of West Side Story.  It looks and sounds very exciting.  Updated script and new choreography (great as Jerry Robbins' choreo is, its time to be updated).

The reverse-chrono plot device was used in Merrily We Roll Along - first in the 1934 play and then in the Sondheim musical - but the woman going back and the man going forward is interesting.  I will check out Jason Robert Brown since I am not aware of his work.

[Mirror Image]

Cross-posted from the 'Listening' thread:

Bernstein
Halil
Jean-Pierre Rampal (flute)
Israel Philharmonic Orchestra
Leonard Bernstein



A gorgeous piece. Bernstein in full-on exotic mode with hints of Stravinsky's Greek ballets and Debussy's Impressionism.

Some valuable information regarding Halil here:

https://www.leonardbernstein.com/works/view/18/halil-nocturne

[Mirror Image]

Revisiting the Three Meditations from 'Mass' (Rostropovich/Bernstein on DG) and I have to admit to really enjoying these. Rostropovich's cello playing is, of course, exemplary, but the sheer inventiveness of the music itself is also a wonder. Perhaps this will ease me into enjoying the full work. One of things that I find most appealing about Bernstein, besides the sheer impact of the music itself, is his melody writing. I do believe he was one of the greatest melodists of the 20th Century and this can be heard throughout his oeuvre.

[San Antone]

Revisiting the Three Meditations from 'Mass' (Rostropovich/Bernstein on DG) and I have to admit to really enjoying these. Rostropovich's cello playing is, of course, exemplary, but the sheer inventiveness of the music itself is also a wonder. Perhaps this will ease me into enjoying the full work. One of things that I find most appealing about Bernstein, besides the sheer impact of the music itself, is his melody writing. I do believe he was one of the greatest melodists of the 20th Century and this can be heard throughout his oeuvre.

Yes, his melodic gift was strong and unique. 

If you do take a serious look at Mass I think you may also alter your view that it is a "cluttered mess".  Bernstein unified the work with motifs which recur in various guises, and there are thematic processes which link the sections, all building to a effective climax and cathartic conclusion. 

As a large form composition, it is well put together, IMO.

[Roasted Swan]

Yes, his melodic gift was strong and unique. 

If you do take a serious look at Mass I think you may also alter your view that it is a "cluttered mess".  Bernstein unified the work with motifs which recur in various guises, and there are thematic processes which link the sections, all building to a effective climax and cathartic conclusion. 

As a large form composition, it is well put together, IMO.

+1 San Antone - we'll get all these non-believers ( ) onside........

[Mirror Image]

Yes, his melodic gift was strong and unique. 

If you do take a serious look at Mass I think you may also alter your view that it is a "cluttered mess".  Bernstein unified the work with motifs which recur in various guises, and there are thematic processes which link the sections, all building to a effective climax and cathartic conclusion. 

As a large form composition, it is well put together, IMO.

Larger forms certainly didn't stop Bernstein. I mean look at A Quiet Place or the operetta, Candide. I admire his tenacity for adhering to his own inner voice throughout his entire career and, yes, this includes especially the Mass. I shall definitely be giving the Mass another go thanks in large part to your own enthusiasm for the work and, trust me, you're not the only person who thinks highly of the work. Marin Alsop said, for example, this was her favorite work from Bernstein.

[Mirror Image]

San Antone, I just read through your collection of reviews on Mass. I find it strange that you didn't comment on the audio quality of the Nézet-Séguin recording which I read was terrible. What's your opinion of this?