Leonard Bernstein 1918-1990

Started by vandermolen, May 13, 2009, 03:20:23 AM

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Moonfish

"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

San Antone

This weekend my mother-in-law and brother-in-law went to a performance The Mass in Philadelphia. 

I have always had a soft spot for this work ever since first hearing it back in 1971.  I still have that recording but haven't listened to it ai ages.  My brother-in-law hated it and my wife said he was quite merciless when she talked to him (keep in mind he does not listen to classical music much).  Since she had never heard it I played most of the fist half this morning, and while she agree it sounded dated in places, she thought her brother a tad unfair.

In reading back over this thread it appears that The Mass does not get a lot of love from GMG (and the Kaddish Symphony either).  I will say it: I love The Mass - in all its unabashed and over-the-top indulgences.  Absolutely love it!  (And I wrote a complimentary Amazon review of Jamie Bernstein's new text and recitation for the 3rd symphony.)

Go ahead - call me a softy, but Bernstein is a composer that just gets me every time.

:)

Mirror Image

There are some parts of the Mass that I enjoy, but I think in this instance Bernstein bit off more than he could chew. The whole work is an absolute mess and many of the ideas just seems haphazardly strung together without any kind of care or thought whatsoever. I like Bernstein's music, but this work has never done anything for me. Perhaps I should re-listen to it at some point, but I've heard it several times and never felt anything from it other than being terrified by it's kitschiness.

San Antone

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 04, 2015, 07:54:10 AM
There are some parts of the Mass that I enjoy, but I think in this instance Bernstein bit off more than he could chew. The whole work is an absolute mess and many of the ideas just seems haphazardly strung together without any kind of care or thought whatsoever. I like Bernstein's music, but this work has never done anything for me. Perhaps I should re-listen to it at some point, but I've heard it several times and never felt anything from it other than being terrified by it's kitschiness.


An opposing view, and one shared by others.  But one which does not change my enjoyment of the work one bit.

;)

Mirror Image

Quote from: sanantonio on May 04, 2015, 07:56:59 AM

An opposing view, and one shared by others.  But one which does not change my enjoyment of the work one bit.

;)

Not that I would try to change your mind or anyone else's of course. We like what we like whether it's in our control or out of our control. ;)

bhodges

Quote from: sanantonio on May 04, 2015, 07:26:00 AM
This weekend my mother-in-law and brother-in-law went to a performance The Mass in Philadelphia. 

I have always had a soft spot for this work ever since first hearing it back in 1971.  I still have that recording but haven't listened to it ai ages.  My brother-in-law hated it and my wife said he was quite merciless when she talked to him (keep in mind he does not listen to classical music much).  Since she had never heard it I played most of the fist half this morning, and while she agree it sounded dated in places, she thought her brother a tad unfair.

In reading back over this thread it appears that The Mass does not get a lot of love from GMG (and the Kaddish Symphony either).  I will say it: I love The Mass - in all its unabashed and over-the-top indulgences.  Absolutely love it!  (And I wrote a complimentary Amazon review of Jamie Bernstein's new text and recitation for the 3rd symphony.)

Go ahead - call me a softy, but Bernstein is a composer that just gets me every time.

:)

Reports on the Philadelphia performance were mostly quite positive, even spectacular - certainly looks like it, from the photos posted on Facebook.

I heard it for the very first time in 2008, when Marin Alsop and the Baltimore SO brought it to NYC's United Palace Theatre (quite over-the top, see photos). And I wrote a short review, below. Mostly, I liked the piece, even if it is something of a behemoth. (Or maybe that's its attraction, said as a fan of the Mahler Eighth.  8))

https://unitedpalace.org/united-palace-theatre

http://www.musicweb-international.com/SandH/2008/Jul-Dec08/alsop2510.htm

--Bruce

Karl Henning

Quote from: sanantonio on May 04, 2015, 07:26:00 AM
This weekend my mother-in-law and brother-in-law went to a performance The Mass in Philadelphia. 

I have always had a soft spot for this work ever since first hearing it back in 1971.  I still have that recording but haven't listened to it ai ages.  My brother-in-law hated it and my wife said he was quite merciless when she talked to him (keep in mind he does not listen to classical music much).  Since she had never heard it I played most of the fist half this morning, and while she agree it sounded dated in places, she thought her brother a tad unfair.

In reading back over this thread it appears that The Mass does not get a lot of love from GMG (and the Kaddish Symphony either).  I will say it: I love The Mass - in all its unabashed and over-the-top indulgences.  Absolutely love it!  (And I wrote a complimentary Amazon review of Jamie Bernstein's new text and recitation for the 3rd symphony.)

Go ahead - call me a softy, but Bernstein is a composer that just gets me every time.

:)

Whether you're a softy or not, one of the first sort-of-like-composition things I ever did was arrange West Side Story so that three wind players could plausibly serve in the pit, and Bernstein has always had my musical respect and affection as a result.  I've never listened through the Mass yet . . . the occasional snippet which I experienced over the years rather disinclined me to the work – I do not say that to defend myself.  I bought the SONY reissue box, reckoning that it was excellent value for me, even if I considered two of the CDs as negligible.  Our Brian's being a huge fan of the Mass has put me in a frame of mind to reconsider;  and I am alive to how the listener must really be prepared to take a "new" piece on its own terms – heck, the first time I listened to a Haydn Mass, I disliked it, because it was not doing the things I wanted a musical setting of the Mass to do.

So, at present I remain a Bernstein Mass Agnostic;  I shall certainly listen to it sometime, I'm just not yet certain – I want to try to be sure that my ears are as accommodating as the composer deserves.

[asin]B0056K4VEK[/asin]
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

San Antone

Quote from: karlhenning on May 04, 2015, 08:18:37 AM
Whether you're a softy or not, one of the first sort-of-like-composition things I ever did was arrange West Side Story so that three wind players could plausibly serve in the pit, and Bernstein has always had my musical respect and affection as a result.  I've never listened through the Mass yet . . . the occasional snippet which I experienced over the years rather disinclined me to the work – I do not say that to defend myself.  I bought the SONY reissue box, reckoning that it was excellent value for me, even if I considered two of the CDs as negligible.  Our Brian's being a huge fan of the Mass has put me in a frame of mind to reconsider;  and I am alive to how the listener must really be prepared to take a "new" piece on its own terms – heck, the first time I listened to a Haydn Mass, I disliked it, because it was not doing the things I wanted a musical setting of the Mass to do.

So, at present I remain a Bernstein Mass Agnostic;  I shall certainly listen to it sometime, I'm just not yet certain – I want to try to be sure that my ears are as accommodating as the composer deserves.

[asin]B0056K4VEK[/asin]

Now that there have been more recent interpretations, Bernstein's version is *arguably* not the best way to experience the work.  The BBC YouTube might be an option, Järvi does a good job and his soloists are decent, IMO.  The work is a monster because of the stylistic demands.

San Antone

Quote from: Brewski on May 04, 2015, 08:18:11 AM
Reports on the Philadelphia performance were mostly quite positive, even spectacular - certainly looks like it, from the photos posted on Facebook.

I heard it for the very first time in 2008, when Marin Alsop and the Baltimore SO brought it to NYC's United Palace Theatre (quite over-the top, see photos). And I wrote a short review, below. Mostly, I liked the piece, even if it is something of a behemoth. (Or maybe that's its attraction, said as a fan of the Mahler Eighth.  8))

https://unitedpalace.org/united-palace-theatre

http://www.musicweb-international.com/SandH/2008/Jul-Dec08/alsop2510.htm

--Bruce

Excellent review and a view I quite share.  I will pass along the remarks about the Philly performance to my wife.

:)

Pat B

Quote from: karlhenning on May 04, 2015, 08:18:37 AM
Whether you're a softy or not, one of the first sort-of-like-composition things I ever did was arrange West Side Story so that three wind players could plausibly serve in the pit, and Bernstein has always had my musical respect and affection as a result.  I've never listened through the Mass yet . . . the occasional snippet which I experienced over the years rather disinclined me to the work – I do not say that to defend myself.  I bought the SONY reissue box, reckoning that it was excellent value for me, even if I considered two of the CDs as negligible.  Our Brian's being a huge fan of the Mass has put me in a frame of mind to reconsider;  and I am alive to how the listener must really be prepared to take a "new" piece on its own terms – heck, the first time I listened to a Haydn Mass, I disliked it, because it was not doing the things I wanted a musical setting of the Mass to do.

So, at present I remain a Bernstein Mass Agnostic;  I shall certainly listen to it sometime, I'm just not yet certain – I want to try to be sure that my ears are as accommodating as the composer deserves.

I've listened to it a couple of times. I probably don't really understand it yet. For now, I don't quite share sanantonio's enthusiasm, but I think it's better than its reputation.

Whenever the time comes, it might work best if you try not to think of it as a mass at all.

Karl Henning

Quote from: Pat B on May 04, 2015, 10:34:40 AM
I've listened to it a couple of times. I probably don't really understand it yet. For now, I don't quite share sanantonio's enthusiasm, but I think it's better than its reputation.

Whenever the time comes, it might work best if you try not to think of it as a mass at all.

I can see that, indeed.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

San Antone

#171
So, today was devoted in large part to Bernstein's Mass

This morning I listened to about half of the original Bernstein-led recording.  Next I listened to a YouTube video of a BBC Proms live performance of the work led by Kristjan Järvi (which was marred somewhat by a lead singer who I thought did not hold up very well), and now I am listening to Marin Alsop's recording on Naxos.

Even though I am only into the first 15 minutes of Alsop's recording, I think I can say with some level of confidence that hers is the recording to have.

[asin]B002ED6VCW[/asin]

:)

bhodges

And Jubilant Sykes! I mean, he's not called "jubilant" for no reason.  8) (Had never heard of him before this.)

At the time, I didn't want to muddy the glow of the live performance, so have not heard the recording. But now enough time has passed - and, as fun as it was to be in the United Palace Theatre, the sonics are not ideal, and the sound is probably much better on this studio version.

--Bruce

San Antone

#173
My blog post about Bernstein's Mass

QuoteAmong the composers of the 20th century Bernstein's output might appear to be modest. He was a busy conductor, after all,  but still managed to leave behind an impressive body of work.  Eclecticism was his own personal brand.  He wrote three symphonies, none following the traditional symphonic form, as well as chamber music, music for piano, instrumental sonatas and dozens of art songs.  Still, he is probably most famous for the Broadway masterpiece West Side Story from which he crafted a suite of symphonic dances.  He wrote the film scores, his most famous the one for On The Waterfront. 

But even for a composer known for stylistic inclusiveness Mass is eclecticism brought to the extreme.

Written in 1971 with a with text from the liturgy of the Roman Catholic Mass but including additional texts written by Stephen Schwartz and himself, it is a work both celebrating and questioning religious faith.  Mass is subtitled, "A Theatre Piece for Singers, Players and Dancers" which should give you an idea that this is not a mass setting like any you may have heard before.

Near the end, I plugged your review, Bruce.

:)


Mirror Image

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on August 23, 2015, 01:01:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/F-Zfhk22-_M

I was expecting something more volatile. This is quite tame and reminds me that Bernstein had mellowed out much more as he aged.

Maestro267

I bought the Naxos recording of Mass in 2009, and I have been in love with the piece ever since. It is my favourite work of the last 50 years. Incredible tension and drama builds throughout the piece, culminating in that cataclysmic "Dona nobis pacem" and the Celebrant's long mad scene, and the closing reprise of "Almighty Father, incline thine ear" (this time sung by the entire company) always moves me.

Karl Henning

Brian is a big fan of the Mass, too, IIRC.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

San Antone

Quote from: Maestro267 on August 23, 2015, 01:50:52 PM
I bought the Naxos recording of Mass in 2009, and I have been in love with the piece ever since. It is my favourite work of the last 50 years. Incredible tension and drama builds throughout the piece, culminating in that cataclysmic "Dona nobis pacem" and the Celebrant's long mad scene, and the closing reprise of "Almighty Father, incline thine ear" (this time sung by the entire company) always moves me.

I also think this is the best recording of Mass - and am another big fan of the work.

Christo

Quote from: sanantonio on August 23, 2015, 02:56:52 PMI also think this is the best recording of Mass - and am another big fan of the work.

Great to hear - the same applies to me. Heard it around 1980 and love it.  :)
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948