Leonard Bernstein 1918-1990

Started by vandermolen, May 13, 2009, 03:20:23 AM

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San Antone

Quote from: Christo on August 23, 2015, 09:28:35 PM
Great to hear - the same applies to me. Heard it around 1980 and love it.  :)

Earlier this year I wrote about my admiration of Mass and surveyed the available recordings, here.

Leo K.

Quote from: Leo K. on February 02, 2013, 06:45:25 AM
Mess! Yes, I agree! And I too have no desire for a return visit to this work, anytime soon!

Kent Nagano's account of Bernstein's Mass is turning me around on this work. It's a revelation to hear this performance - it's definitely different in tone to Bernstein's original recording and refreshing to hear. I've got to get Alsop's account now!!

zamyrabyrd

I had a hard time with this piece from the very beginning. Here's why:
'In the beginning all of the performers are in harmony and agreement. During the course of the Mass, however, the street choir begins expressing doubts and suspicions about the necessity of God in their lives and the role of the Mass itself. At the play's emotional climax, the growing cacophony of the chorus' complaining finally interrupts the elevation of the Body and Blood (the consecrated bread and wine). The celebrant, in a furious rage, hurls the sacred bread, housed in an ornate cross-like monstrance, and the chalice of wine, smashing them on the floor.
At this sacrilege the other cast members collapse to the ground as if dead while the Celebrant sings a solo. This solo blends the chorus's disbelief with his realization that he feels worn out and wonders where the strength of his original faith has gone.

At the end of his song, he too collapses. A bird-like (Holy Spirit) flute solo begins, darting here and there from different speakers in the hall, finally "alighting" in a single clear note. An altar server, who was absent during the conflict, then sings a hymn of praise to God, "Sing God a Secret Song[6]". This restores the faith of the three choirs, who join the altar server, one by one, in his hymn of praise. They tell the Celebrant "Pax tecum" (Peace be with you), and end with a hymn asking for God's blessing. The last words of the piece are: "The Mass is ended; go in peace."'
(from Wikipedia)
All I can say is, what bloody nerve!
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

Karl Henning

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on November 29, 2015, 07:45:40 AM
I had a hard time with this piece from the very beginning. Here's why:

'In the beginning all of the performers are in harmony and agreement. During the course of the Mass, however, the street choir begins expressing doubts and suspicions about the necessity of God in their lives and the role of the Mass itself. At the play's emotional climax, the growing cacophony of the chorus' complaining finally interrupts the elevation of the Body and Blood (the consecrated bread and wine). The celebrant, in a furious rage, hurls the sacred bread, housed in an ornate cross-like monstrance, and the chalice of wine, smashing them on the floor. At this sacrilege the other cast members collapse to the ground as if dead while the Celebrant sings a solo. This solo blends the chorus's disbelief with his realization that he feels worn out and wonders where the strength of his original faith has gone.

At the end of his song, he too collapses. A bird-like (Holy Spirit) flute solo begins, darting here and there from different speakers in the hall, finally "alighting" in a single clear note. An altar server, who was absent during the conflict, then sings a hymn of praise to God, "Sing God a Secret Song[6]". This restores the faith of the three choirs, who join the altar server, one by one, in his hymn of praise. They tell the Celebrant "Pax tecum" (Peace be with you), and end with a hymn asking for God's blessing. The last words of the piece are: "The Mass is ended; go in peace."'
(from Wikipedia)

All I can say is, what bloody nerve!

You're right.  (I still haven't brought myself to listen to the piece.  There is whatever-I've-known-about-the-piece-before which is generally an obstacle.  And there is what-I-continue-to-learn-about-it, which is further obstacle.  With becalmed mind, I consider the facts, and I just don't find anything to motivate me to listen to the piece.)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

San Antone

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on November 29, 2015, 07:45:40 AM
I had a hard time with this piece from the very beginning. Here's why:
'In the beginning all of the performers are in harmony and agreement. During the course of the Mass, however, the street choir begins expressing doubts and suspicions about the necessity of God in their lives and the role of the Mass itself. At the play's emotional climax, the growing cacophony of the chorus' complaining finally interrupts the elevation of the Body and Blood (the consecrated bread and wine). The celebrant, in a furious rage, hurls the sacred bread, housed in an ornate cross-like monstrance, and the chalice of wine, smashing them on the floor.
At this sacrilege the other cast members collapse to the ground as if dead while the Celebrant sings a solo. This solo blends the chorus's disbelief with his realization that he feels worn out and wonders where the strength of his original faith has gone.

At the end of his song, he too collapses. A bird-like (Holy Spirit) flute solo begins, darting here and there from different speakers in the hall, finally "alighting" in a single clear note. An altar server, who was absent during the conflict, then sings a hymn of praise to God, "Sing God a Secret Song[6]". This restores the faith of the three choirs, who join the altar server, one by one, in his hymn of praise. They tell the Celebrant "Pax tecum" (Peace be with you), and end with a hymn asking for God's blessing. The last words of the piece are: "The Mass is ended; go in peace."'
(from Wikipedia)
All I can say is, what bloody nerve!

Quote from: karlhenning on November 30, 2015, 03:22:40 AM
You're right.  (I still haven't brought myself to listen to the piece.  There is whatever-I've-known-about-the-piece-before which is generally an obstacle.  And there is what-I-continue-to-learn-about-it, which is further obstacle.  With becalmed mind, I consider the facts, and I just don't find anything to motivate me to listen to the piece.)

I love the work.

Karl Henning

Quote from: sanantonio on November 30, 2015, 03:27:28 AM
I love the work.

I know. As does our Brian (whose enthusiasm set my mind to considering giving it a listen).  When I reflect on it, I find myself wondering if I should do Bernstein a better service by just continuing to listen to the music which I can unequivocally admire.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

zamyrabyrd

Quote from: karlhenning on November 30, 2015, 03:22:40 AM
You're right.  (I still haven't brought myself to listen to the piece.  There is whatever-I've-known-about-the-piece-before which is generally an obstacle.  And there is what-I-continue-to-learn-about-it, which is further obstacle.  With becalmed mind, I consider the facts, and I just don't find anything to motivate me to listen to the piece.)

It was on the classical music station not so long ago, so it was in my face while driving. Didn't shut the radio as I was curious. I didn't think the music itself was up to his best stuff. I remember the big hoopla when Jackie Kennedy went to the premiere. (She and some other Kennedy's were strange Catholics, but that I suppose is off-topic.)

Zb
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

San Antone

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on November 30, 2015, 04:37:06 AM
It was on the classical music station not so long ago, so it was in my face while driving. Didn't shut the radio as I was curious. I didn't think the music itself was up to his best stuff. I remember the big hoopla when Jackie Kennedy went to the premiere. (She and some other Kennedy's were strange Catholics, but that I suppose is off-topic.)

Zb

Not to belabor the discussion, of course each person's reaction to the work is valid.  But I consider Mass to contain Bernstein's best music,second only to West Side Story (I especially like the gumbo of styles).  I also feel quite differently from you about the theology in the work, which deals with the ageless issue of struggling with faith.  I think (could be mistaken) that the JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations, and the challenge to hope they represented in 1971,  were central to Bernstein's inspiration for this work.

zamyrabyrd

Quote from: sanantonio on November 30, 2015, 04:49:56 AM
Not to belabor the discussion, of course each person's reaction to the work is valid.  But I consider Mass to contain Bernstein's best music,second only to West Side Story (I especially like the gumbo of styles).  I also feel quite differently from you about the theology in the work, which deals with the ageless issue of struggling with faith.  I think (could be mistaken) that the JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations, and the challenge to hope they represented in 1971,  were central to Bernstein's inspiration for this work.

Well, Bernstein could have had the same effect by throwing the Torah or Talmud on the floor. His father would have been scandalized however and maybe some other people as well. I find this work high camp which was also central to Lennie. And I did read Burton's biography.

Zb
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

Leo K.



I'm currently enjoying works I haven't heard by Bernstein. This morning I'm playing his Concerto for Orchestra 'Jubilee Games' which I rather like.


Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Leo K.

Quote from: karlhenning on December 05, 2015, 04:54:53 AM
I may embark on a Lenny-thon soon . . . .

https://www.youtube.com/v/Rb0DLC6-Uj0

I'm listening to Lenny in the midst of a Schoenberg marathon and enjoying the forays into blind spots of his work. This morning I'm very impressed with Slatkin's performance of the 'Jeremiah' Symphony No.1.

 

I'm especially curious to hear other conductors (besides Lenny) play his serious works. It's a fascinating traversal to be sure!

vandermolen

Quote from: Leo K. on December 06, 2015, 04:47:49 AM
I'm listening to Lenny in the midst of a Schoenberg marathon and enjoying the forays into blind spots of his work. This morning I'm very impressed with Slatkin's performance of the 'Jeremiah' Symphony No.1.

 

I'm especially curious to hear other conductors (besides Lenny) play his serious works. It's a fascinating traversal to be sure!

The 'Jeremiah Symphony' is my favourite work by Bernstein and I have every single recording of it (OCD   ::)). The Slatkin is one of the very best - a fine performance and recording. My other favourite is the one conducted by Bernstein himself on CBS/Sony, the second of his three recordings. The discussions above have encouraged me to listen to the Mass. I also like the score for 'On the Waterfront'.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Karl Henning

I should revisit Jeremiad. I mean, Jeremiah  8)  I remember liking it all right, but that The Age of Anxiety "really tied the room together."
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mirror Image

For me, Bernstein's crowing orchestral achievement is still his Serenade. The slow movement is especially memorable and heartfelt.


vandermolen

Best version of 'Jeremiah' known to me. A truly sensational and deeply moving performance and I have six versions including three by Bernstein himself. It is the fastest on record but played with such conviction that I was gripped like never before and there is a truly heartbreaking moment when the Mezzo-Soprano slows down in the middle of her rendition of Jeremiah's Lamentation:
[asin]B01NCEGINK[/asin]
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Karl Henning

Six versions!  Thanks for the review, Jeffrey.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

vandermolen

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 19, 2017, 01:20:31 PM
Six versions!  Thanks for the review, Jeffrey.
Always a pleasure Karl :)
Bernstein (RCA and Dutton,Sony,DGG - Sony is best I think)
Judd, Naxos
Slatkin, Chandos
I enjoy them all but Alsop is my favourite.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: jowcol on May 14, 2009, 09:28:19 AM
I also chime in on the "On the Waterfront" suite-- I love to listening to it walking alone at night.  The last three or four minutes is really powerful stuff.

The second symphony gets off to a slow start, but the second half is really fine, in my book.  I'll need to get the Jeremiah...
I agree with you about the Second Symphony which I'm just really discovering on the great new Alsop recording. I love the declamatory and redemptive ending.  :) :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).