Composers' Dirty Laundry

[Brian]

Hog. Wash.

This, on the other hand:

"Music must first and foremost be loved; it must come from the heart and it must be directed to the heart. Otherwise it cannot hope to be lasting, indestructible art." - Sergey Rachmaninov

[matti]

Bob was 10 and apparently hung himself around 2 weeks after Tchaikovsky left. Tchaikovsky kind of never got over it.

It's very easy to google your facts right instead of writing BS from memory. Vladimir ("Bob") Davidov shot himself 1906 at the age of 34.

[not edward]

While generally I think it's fair to say that "dirty laundry" of this nature is nothing more than that, there are certainly cases where it's not irrelevant.

Britten's homosexuality (and in particular his sexual attraction to early-teenage boys) is a very obvious subtext in many of his song cycles and operas. I don't think I, at least, can view them quite in the same way knowing this. Similarly, Szymanowski's sexual proclivities are an integral part of King Roger.

In a world where homosexuality seems to be increasingly accepted, perhaps there will be less of a need for composers to express that particular type of otherness in music. However, I am sure there will always be creative artists who feel that kind of alienation from mainstream society and express it in their work.

[Joe Barron]

This post seems to contradict itself.  You say that Wagner's antisemitism was just as important in the creation of his works as Mitchell's alleged racism was in creating one of the greatest novels of all time which you unfortunately seem to have taken upon yourself to declare invalid. But then you declare, rightly, that you find "the argument that his operas are antisemitic tracts ultimately unconvincing."  You claim, however, that Meistersinger contains "antisemitic signals" and "code"...Clarification please?

No, I don't think I am contradiciting myself. What I'm saying is that that Wagner's antisemitism would be a great hindrance to my appreciation of the operas, much  Mitchell's racial politics prevent me from reading Gone with the Wind, or Eliot's antisemtism interfers with my appreciation of his poetry, if the presence of antisemitism in the operas could be proven to my satisfaction. The issue is an important one to me,  and I was able to come to grips with it only after extensive reading. And I do not claim that Meistersinger contains racial codes. Weiner does. I was paraphrasing him. Read the book.

As it is, there are lots of other things that prevent me from fully appreciating Wagner's operas, which, to me, have become a test of endurance.

How political, or even racial, tracts (no records exist, to my knowledge, of Wagner physically harming a Jew) can be viewed as more "dirty" than pedophilia, adultery, and the rest is beyond me.

This is a good point, but it's a question of the art and our relationship to it. The usual defense of Wagner is that the creator's personal failings do not and should not interefere with our appreciation of a great work of art. But the converse of that argument is that a demonstrably antisemitic work would be more objectionable than, say, nonpedophlic art written by a pedophile. In the former case, we are being asked, as consumers of music, to consent to an obectionable idea, to become, as it were, its co-conspirators. In the latter, we are being asked to overlook a personal failing that in our day would be regarded as a crime. Whether we choose to do so would depend largely on whether we like the music more than we deplore the crime.

[Florestan]

People who are emotionally or mentally torn create the best art.

This excludes Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Verdi, Rachmaninoff, Richard Strauss, Goethe, Schiller, Balzac, Gabriel Garcia Marquez or Mario Vargas Llosa (to name but a few) from the realm of "best art". 

[Superhorn]

   From what I've heard about Britten, he had a definite attraction to boys, but unfortunately he had enough self control and never actually did anything untoward.

[matti]

This excludes Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Verdi, Rachmaninoff, Richard Strauss, Goethe, Schiller, Balzac, Gabriel Garcia Marquez or Mario Vargas Llosa (to name but a few) from the realm of "best art". 

Yes, but it might be interesting, yet utterly futile, to speculate what kind of an output a "free" and "happy" Shostakovich would have created.

[Guido]

   From what I've heard about Britten, he had a definite attraction to boys, but unfortunately he had enough self control and never actually did anything untoward.

Do you mean fortunately?

[Todd]

From what I've heard about Britten, he had a definite attraction to boys, but unfortunately he had enough self control and never actually did anything untoward.

Here's something that claims exactly the opposite.  It is certainly acidic, and I can't vouch for it's accuracy at all, but it makes for lurid reading.  (Perhaps the author is a crackpot?)

[Bulldog]

Here's something that claims exactly the opposite.  It is certainly acidic, and I can't vouch for it's accuracy at all, but it makes for lurid reading.  (Perhaps the author is a crackpot?)

I don't know the answer, but MusicWeb International sure thinks he's a crackpot.  Once a contributor to the website, the owner eventually removed all traces of the guy.

[Todd]

I don't know the answer, but MusicWeb International sure thinks he's a crackpot.  Once a contributor to the website, the owner eventually removed all traces of the guy.

That certainly doesn't enhance his credibility.

[karlhenning]

Yes, but it might be interesting, yet utterly futile, to speculate what kind of an output a "free" and "happy" Shostakovich would have created.

I think the pre-Pravda-editorial output indicates that Shostakovich possessed musical greatness regardless of the roller coaster which was his life after.  And he was certainly nothing mentally torn;  his musical discipline is legendary.

[Dundonnell]

I don't know the answer, but MusicWeb International sure thinks he's a crackpot.  Once a contributor to the website, the owner eventually removed all traces of the guy.

Eeeek!! I stopped reading David Wright's incendiary article after the first few paragraphs. It was beginning to make me feel quite sick!

I agree that Wright is an author with extremely strongly expressed views and I cannot comment on the veracity of his claims about Britten.

I would just however point out that "all traces" have most certainly not been removed from the Musicweb International Website. His lengthy and detailed articles on British composers like Richard Arnell, Peter Racine Fricker, John Gardner, William Mathias, Humphrey Searle and John Veale are still very much available on the website.

When Wright eschews comments on the personal lives of his subjects and concentrates on their music he is informative and-as far as I can judge from his discussion of works I have heard-his musical judgments are pretty sound.

[c#minor]

It's very easy to google your facts right instead of writing BS from memory. Vladimir ("Bob") Davidov shot himself 1906 at the age of 34.

Ah my laziness bites me again. Well at least a got the killing himself right, and kind of the Bob.

[c#minor]

This excludes Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Verdi, Rachmaninoff, Richard Strauss, Goethe, Schiller, Balzac, Gabriel Garcia Marquez or Mario Vargas Llosa (to name but a few) from the realm of "best art". 

There are exceptions, there are exceptions. They are just the lucky ones.

[karlhenning]

There are exceptions, there are exceptions. They are just the lucky ones.

No; your thesis is romantified rubbish.

[c#minor]

I say who really cares what a person did. Their art is not tainted by their morality. Even if there is a direct link, it was written to be beautiful, not to bring people on to the pedo-wagon.

[Brian]

Here's something that claims exactly the opposite.  It is certainly acidic, and I can't vouch for it's accuracy at all, but it makes for lurid reading.  (Perhaps the author is a crackpot?)

I was just sharing this thread with a friend of mine and he pointed out that the article includes this gem:

In fact, Elgar and Britten had a lot in common. They were both arrogant, bad tempered, ruthless, toadies, abusers, emotional thugs and sexually perverted. In Elgar's case he always insisted that women who took part in any of his works always wore navy blue knickers and he sometimes inspected them to see that his wishes were being complied with. Elgar was bisexual and often tried to steal women from their husbands. Walton once said that the greatest composer of our time was Shostakovich and at the other end of the spectrum was Elgar, bloody Elgar! ... Elgar was a disgusting individual with a fetish for ladies in navy blue underwear. He wrote a Cello Concerto for Beatrice Harrison to play so she would have to open her legs and he insisted that she always wore navy blue knickers. He insisted that women in the chorus and orchestra of his works did likewise and often inspected them to ensure this.

But of course he didn't write it for Beatrice Harrison: "The premiere in 1919 had been given by the cellist Felix Salmond, but the composer/soloist mix had not been a great success. Beatrice Harrison was the talented younger sister of May Harrison and she came highly recommended to Elgar by Landon Ronald following performances he had given with them of the Brahms Double Concerto." From the liner notes of my Naxos CD, "Elgar Conducts Elgar: Symphony No. 2, Cello Concerto," notes by Ian Julier.

My friend also points out this, on another page by the same author:

Elgar is the only composer who has had a Depreciation Society in which famous musicians would discuss his work and its many weaknesses. At first, some may say that this society had evil intent and was fuelled by jealousy or some other unpleasantness or unfairness and that this society was out to damage Elgar's reputation.

The number of musicians who hated Elgar's music is considerable and include famous names. Ravel was physically sick whenever he heard Elgar and simply loathed the Cello Concerto; Sir Charles Villiers Stanford also detested Elgar's music, including the Cello Concerto. There is that wonderful story that he wrote to Elgar one day and said that he was sitting in the smallest room in his house with a copy of the Elgar Cello Concerto before him but that, thankfully, it would soon be behind him.

[my friend's AOL instant message screenname] (9:00:49 PM): and sir charles stanford didnt write that review
[s/n] (9:00:52 PM): it was by max reger
[s/n] (9:01:01 PM): and i think it was reger responding to a critic

EDIT: Clarification in following post

[lordlawler]

First post - I've been long told by Brian to post on here, as I'm a Music History/Musicologist major at a music school and always love a good discussion, but I'm also very lazy. But here I go.

Reading David Wright's articles, at least on Benjamin Britten and Edward Elgar, I want to say that most of the claims put forth are completely false. Most. There are kernels of truth in them, but I have never read or heard half of what he says, and the other half is patently false. Many of his quotes do not belong to the people he ascribes them to.

The number of musicians who hated Elgar's music is considerable and include famous names. Ravel was physically sick whenever he heard Elgar and simply loathed the Cello Concerto; Sir Charles Villiers Stanford also detested Elgar's music, including the Cello Concerto. There is that wonderful story that he wrote to Elgar one day and said that he was sitting in the smallest room in his house with a copy of the Elgar Cello Concerto before him but that, thankfully, it would soon be behind him.

This was Max Reger, in response to Rudolph Louis (a music critic for Muchner Neuste Nachrichten).

And to respond to the Britten - There is some truth in Wright's attacks; I am not terribly familiar with Britten's sexual history (It would be rather odd of me to be though), but I know that there may have been something involving younger boys. However his characterizations of Britten's music are for the most part false (I confess I am not terribly well versed ). Billy Budd is not about the sexual frustration of sailors and their release in homosexual sex, for example...yeah, I too went "wtf mate" when I read that. The only other times I've heard Billy Budd described thusly was by an arrogant high school student trying to annoy our English teacher and some over-titled academics. I suppose I can count Mr Wright among their esteemed ranks.

Anyways, I would instinctively not believe anything Wright says. Read it as entertainment, not as truth.

Also, to throw out something, reflect on the rather creep origins of Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique. Does our knowing about his stalker/obsessive tendencies color what we think or how we interpret the story. Although I do have a female friend who told me that if a man wrote a whole symphony about her she'd go for him...

[Brian]

Yes!! You finally posted!

Also, to throw out something, reflect on the rather creep origins of Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique. Does our knowing about his stalker/obsessive tendencies color what we think or how we interpret the story. Although I do have a female friend who told me that if a man wrote a whole symphony about her she'd go for him...

Sinfonia seductiva
By Brian
I. Allegro aggressivo
II. Toccata temptosa
III. Serenata sensitiva (quasi una casanova)
IV. Rondo alla pollaca in missionario posizione