Make a Jazz Noise Here

[SonicMan46]

Bechet, Sidney (1897-1959) - New Orleans clarinettist & soprano saxophone player, and one of the earliest virtuoso soloists on those respective instruments.  Listening to this inexpensive Proper box of 4 discs w/ music dating from 1923 to 1950; excellent booklet which includes details on each recording!  Wiki article HERE for those interested -


 

[Grazioso]

A few pages back, Leon noted Monk's improvisational style of working with the melody versus the changes. Here's a beautiful example of that, and of bringing contrasting styles together:

http://www.youtube.com/v/idwgrbLQ09s

"Well, You Needn't"
solos in order:
Monk
Trane
Ray Copeland
Wilbur Ware
Art Blakey
Coleman Hawkins
Gigi Gryce
Monk

Monk sticks close to the melody and stabs at the piano in his trademark style, like he's trying to squash an ant running across the keyboard. Trane blasts into the song, and for a second sounds almost like he's playing a different tune until he calms down a bit and plays through the changes. (Listen to how Monk slips in his opening ad lib melody from the intro, mirroring one of Trane's phrases. It will return again.) Still, he sounds comparatively tense and aggressive vis-a-vis Monk.

Copeland seems to struggle toward the end of his solo and has an, um, interesting relationship with the beat. Ware is probably most at home here, keeping it simple and both mirroring bits of Monk's style and setting up a cool groove (awesome tone, too). Blakey beats the crap out of his drums in typically masterly fashion, though his solo style seems to move further and further away from the tune's quirky nature. Hawkins provides an interesting contrast to Trane in terms of tone, phrasing, and licks (more a throwback to the earlier era he came up in). Gryce is somewhat more angular and stabbing, and Monk and Blakey follow suit (listen to Blakey's bass drum accents).

FYI, the changes are 16 measure of alternating F7 and Gb7 (Gb6) with a bridge that doubles the harmonic rhythm for a chromatic up-and-down sequence of dom7 chords, then a return to 8 measures of alternating F7 and Gb7. The tune blurs tonality, with an F key signature and B natural tonic alternating with Bb (Just call it "in the key of Monk"). A question: is the Gb chord a tritone sub for C, the V of F, or is the half-step motion just Monk being Monk?

[Grazioso]

I think the song is "in F" but really the harmonic progression is so divorced from the standard rhythm changes that implications of the F# being a substitution of the dominant, etc. are not relevant:  my take, it is Monk being Monk.

Like the old joke goes, "Play the wrong note once, it's a mistake. Play it twice, it's jazz" 

[Mirror Image]

James, you listen to the most awful shit I've ever heard. You continue to show you know nothing about jazz by listening to this second-rate fusion crap. I'm sorry, but that garbage isn't jazz.

[Mirror Image]

Thanks to a communal suggestion from DavidRoss and my colleague Dan Meyers, Chas Mingus, Let My Children Hear Music

[asin]B0012GMYDM[/asin]

Very good album, Karl. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this one of Mingus's last?

[Mirror Image]

Earlier today I listened to this:

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[Mirror Image]

Now listening:

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The lineup for this album are the following musicians:

Stefon Harris - vibraphone, marimba
Xavier Davis - piano
Derrick Hodge - bass
Terreon Gully - drums
Steve Turre - trombone
Anne Drummond - flute
Greg Tady - clarinet
Junah Chung - viola
Louise Dubin - cello

Track listing:

From The New Orleans Suite by Duke Ellington & Billy Strayhorn
1. Thanks for the Beautiful Land on the Delta
2. Portrait of Wellman Braud
3. Bourbon Street Jingling Jollies

From The Queen's Suite by Duke Ellington
4. Sunset and the Mocking Bird
5. Single Pedal of a Rose

From The Gardner Meditations by Stefon Harris
6. Memoirs of a Frozen Summer
7. African Tarantella
8. Dancing Enigma

[Mirror Image]

James, this is the kind of fusion stuff you should be listening to:

http://www.youtube.com/v/wUHDr6HL1SI

[Mirror Image]

Now listening:

[asin]B0000046NG[/asin]

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this is jazz at its finest. Long live Brownie!

[escher]

i think it would be interesting if anybody here would list his favorite players for any instrument.
For example:

trumpet:
booker little
miles davis
dizzy gillespie
henry red allen
don cherry

sax:
albert ayler
wayne shorter
booker ervin
john coltrane
ornette coleman

piano:
andrew hill
thelonious monk
herbie nichols
dave mckenna
herbie hancock
(there's also bill evans i was forgetting of him...)

guitar:
lenny breau
ed bickert
ted greene
jim hall
tisziji munoz

drums:
philly joe jones
billy higgins
tony williams
roy haynes
al foster

bass:
i can name the usual suspects but i don't feel a strong connection with what bassist usually do in jazz, i don't know why.

[Grazioso]

Now listening:

[asin]B0000046NG[/asin]

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this is jazz at its finest. Long live Brownie!

Amen. I was just listening to the Brownie box set yesterday, specifically Brownie with Sarah Vaughan. Check him out on the classic Art Blakey Night at Birdland live albums, too.

[Grazioso]

James, this is the kind of fusion stuff you should be listening to:

He won't like that: it sounds too much like jazz   

[jowcol]

James, you listen to the most awful shit I've ever heard. You continue to show you know nothing about jazz by listening to this second-rate fusion crap. I'm sorry, but that garbage isn't jazz.

Actually, in the old days, this was the kind of thing I'd cut out and quote if I was going to make fun of someone's debate style.  If James is going to be called out for making sweeping generalizations, it's only fair that others are as well. 




In terms of defining what is Jazz or not-- I'm not sure if any of us here has the God-given right, and any of us that pretend to are just coming off as unintentionally hilarious.   Jazz is a pretty wide term, covering about a century of music, and has ranged from very commercial to very esoteric and challenging.  I would not consider it reasonable to say he knows nothing about Jazz-- I would say for all of us, there are likely large gaps, which is to be expected.  And, although we differ in some of our tastes for "second rate fusion crap", there is a good deal James and I have in common.  Likewise, MI, I know we share a lot of common tastes, and It was great to see you breathe life into the interest in Koechlin in this forum, as I do think he is one of the most underrated 20th century composers. You're also the one who turned me onto Carl Vine, and I'm grateful for that.   

I think that everyone should have a right to post their preferences without getting slammed-- and if I've engaged in some Trollish patterns in the past, it's because the one thing I can't tolerate is intolerance.

[karlhenning]

. . . I think that everyone should have a right to post their preferences without getting slammed--

Agreed. I mean, questioning is one thing; slamming and the Art of the Pfffft are another . . . .

[Grazioso]

and if I've engaged in some Trollish patterns in the past, it's because the one thing I can't tolerate is intolerance.

POSTED:

For your safety and comfort, we ask that children under the age of 12, those with heart conditions, and those who can't tolerate intolerance should not proceed onto the INTERNET. Please exit the ride through the door to your left.

[Mirror Image]

Actually, in the old days, this was the kind of thing I'd cut out and quote if I was going to make fun of someone's debate style.  If James is going to be called out for making sweeping generalizations, it's only fair that others are as well. 

In terms of defining what is Jazz or not-- I'm not sure if any of us here has the God-given right, and any of us that pretend to are just coming off as unintentionally hilarious.   Jazz is a pretty wide term, covering about a century of music, and has ranged from very commercial to very esoteric and challenging.  I would not consider it reasonable to say he knows nothing about Jazz-- I would say for all of us, there are likely large gaps, which is to be expected.  And, although we differ in some of our tastes for "second rate fusion crap", there is a good deal James and I have in common.  Likewise, MI, I know we share a lot of common tastes, and It was great to see you breathe life into the interest in Koechlin in this forum, as I do think he is one of the most underrated 20th century composers. You're also the one who turned me onto Carl Vine, and I'm grateful for that.   

I think that everyone should have a right to post their preferences without getting slammed-- and if I've engaged in some Trollish patterns in the past, it's because the one thing I can't tolerate is intolerance.

You're right. I shouldn't have stooped to James's level. In the future, I'll keep my opinions of what he listens to to myself. It's too bad that he can't do this.

Thanks for the kind words. I have, at least, got people interested in hearing some of Koechlin's music. Even if they didn't particularly like his style, the exposure is all this composer needed.

[Grazioso]

Well, I would prefer that we actually talk about the music we like instead of just posting with no comments.

Ditto that. That's why I posted a little analysis of the Monk recording. Maybe someone would like to keep the ball rolling and discuss some salient points from other recordings. Jazz is really too complex and interesting to boil it down to "is so, is not, screw you"

[Mirror Image]

Well, I would prefer that we actually talk about the music we like instead of just posting with no comments.  I don't care if people criticize my taste or not, in whatever terms they find useful - I enjoy a discussion.  Go ahead, tell me I don't know shit if that's what you think.  I've got pretty thick skin.

Well for me jazz is an old term. It was a style of music that, in my view, died in the '60s. The excess of hard-bop, bebop, cool jazz, etc. were what ended the music. I love bebop, hard-bop, cool jazz, and big band probably more than anybody here, but I just think jazz is a dead-end street now. People can say new life is being breathed into the style, but I associate jazz with swing. If it doesn't swing, then, in my view, its not jazz.

[Grazioso]

Well for me jazz is an old term. It was a style of music that, in my view, died in the '60s. The excess of hard-bop, bebop, cool jazz, etc. were what ended the music. I love bebop, hard-bop, cool jazz, and big band probably more than anybody here, but I just think jazz is a dead-end street now. People can say new life is being breathed into the style, but I associate jazz with swing. If it doesn't swing, then, in my view, its not jazz.

The problem with a strong opinion is that defending it so often becomes more important than anything else. I like being proven wrong about music; it means I'm learning things and getting exposed to cool new sounds.

Anyway, like Leon has noted, a lot of today's jazz is a direct descendant/refinement of jazz from those earlier decades you love. He and I have linked a number of pieces that fall into that category of contemporary swinging, straight-ahead jazz.

Jazz is in somewhat the same predicament as classical music (and really any music as it changes over time). In its zeal to experiment and push boundaries and absorb new influences, it ended up stretching beyond what many felt was the core of jazz. Same with the breakdown (breaking beyond?) of classical-music traditions in the 20th century. Then you get a catch-22: either you're moving outside of tradition and no longer "real" classical music or jazz, or you're some stick-in-the-mud regressive type pining for the days of yore.

[karlhenning]

Well, I really did enjoy Let My Children Hear Music.  I can see why folks would like some opinions/comments and not just here's what I've just listened to.  But the space I've been in lately is one where one's eagerness to opine about the music, often seems like a distraction from, rather than any illumination of, the music.  So I'll content myself with saying that I can hear where it has its various points of intersection with Mingus Ah Um and The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady, but that it is also value added to either. The Bach C# Major Prelude allusion in "Taurus in the Arena of Life" was fun.

In general, what strikes me about Monk is how placidly he floats, and makes his presence known with specifically targeted events which are possessed of a wonderful weight.  Where Mingus has a restless electricity which is part of his character.  Love 'em both.