Make a Jazz Noise Here

[jowcol]

Love this period....like I posted, it is in 1965 that he tends to lose me.  However, my second all time favorite Coltrane album is One Down, One Up, Live at the Half Note so the 1965 date cannot be considered a hard cut-off. 



As for my favorite, it is John Coltrane at Birdland 1962 (on the Charly Label and not to be confused with the 1963 recording):

Another album from the period that is a great overview was the double-album Afro-Blue Impressions on Pablo-- very good set list (although pulled from a variety of live performances) from the 63 tour.

[escher]

(going back to your initial inquiry about player-to-instrument) For his respective instrument um yea .. he was.

Your argument makes no sense. Pastorius was a far greater musician than you understand, if you think he was just about virtuosity.

i've not said that he was "just about virtuosity". But often he was, and to me it's his limit. But i love for example his playing on Hejira (the album of Joni Mitchell), where he plays with great taste and without empy demostrations of technique.

And whether you like Hendrix or not .. he had an enormous impact. Many guitarists passed through the door he opened.

I know and i like him. My "overrated" is referred only to the fact that often he's seen as the greatest genius of the instrument superior to everybody else, and i think it's not true at all. Actually i think that there are greater guitarists than him.

[escher]

You're totally full of crap.

[karlhenning]

I like it!

[jowcol]

Trane dominated much if not all of the music he did. He was certainly the focal point and did get very indulgent. He had a particular chemistry with 'the quartet' and was fortunate to eventually lock in with 3 players who were musically sympathetic to what he was trying to do, which helped loosen things up .. I wouldn't say he was like Miles at all as a player or bandleader.

I agree with a lot of this- although I probably have a non-standard definition of "indulgent."  As far as a comparison to Miles as a band leader, some similarities and differences.  Both of them valued spontaneity, and did not overly constrain what the sidemen would play.  A difference, however, is that Trane did seem to have a more definite sound in mind, while Miles as much more of a "see what happens" type of leader.  Miles would bring people into the band to shake up the current sound, Trane went through a series of bassists until he found the one the "fit"

[Bogey]

Two that had my attention this past Friday and Saturday:



Gives you Birth of the Cool type sound (though this set aabove came later) and a sampling of 1956 Prestige onslaught, but with some different musicians, which Sonny Rollins -"Charlie Chan" is the highlight, IMO.  I tend to enjoy the '56 recordings more than the '53  on this disc, but "it's all good".

Also, gave this a few spins:



If you enjoy Chambers (which I do), then this will give you a stronger dosage with the bow featured on some tracks....I will have to snap up a few more of his lead efforts.  "Trane on this one, but he definitely takes a more modest role.

Now spinning for the first time:



About half way through and Linda and I are enjoying what we hear.   She sends her regards to you and your family, Karl.  She is already chomping at a return to The Pulse.

[Grazioso]

I admit to not being a fan of the song "Giant Steps" - IMO it is more like an exercise than a performance, but most of the rest of the album Giant Steps I love: "Cousin Mary", "Niama", "Mr. P.C." are all great.  My favorite Trane is with the classic quartet,  though, albums Cresent, Love Supreme - but the Atlantic sides are not far behind, like My Favorite Things and Coltrane Plays the Blues.

The problem with the tune "Giant Steps" to me is that Flanagan wasn't up to the task and sort of flounders Can't blame him, though, at that pace, modulating by major 3rds every few seconds, wtf? I like Trane's methodical but powerhouse approach. Like Bach for the jazz set. Interesting article btw about the Coltrane Changes:

http://danadler.com/misc/Cycles.pdf

Either way, the immortal "Naima" makes up for any deficiencies with the album

[DavidRoss]

Feel out of your depth?  Narrow?  Trapped in a Mental prison?  Can't hear music because of tags?  Your worries will soon be over!

I think I've invented the killer app.  And just the thing must of us really need during those unhappy times when James simply isn't posting enough.  I now present, the James Bingo Card Generator:

http://www.youtube.com/v/Vh78T--ZUxY&feature=related
                  
                  

                  

[jowcol]

Joe Henderson is who I'm listening to today.  Right now, Lush Life: The Music of Billy Strayhorn



The tracks range from solo sax on the title song to bass/sax duo, piano-less trio, quartet and a quintet with Wynton Marsalis - a lot of variety and the song selection is top notch.  This CD was considered a "comeback" for him, although for most jazz musicians Henderson never "left" and he was the predominant sax player when I was in NYC, throughout the 80s, all the young guys were doing "his thing".

Great records include all the Blue Note dates, Page One, In 'n' Out, Mode for Joe and the one-off EMI disc Our Thing, then later in his career the above mentioned Lush Life, and his tribute to Miles, So Near, So Far and Porgy & Bess.  His live date of 1985 at the Vanguard with Ron Carter and Al Foster, State of the Art of the Tenor, Henderson pays tribute to Sonny Rollins, and this 2-CD recording has him at the top of his game.

In between those periods Joe Henderson went through a decade or so in the late '60s, through the 70s where he made some mediocre dates for Milestone - but there is not a Joe Henderson date that does not have at least something on it that is very much worthwhile.  The Kicker, from 1968, is especially good.

Eerie coincidence-- I was listening to him as well- The Elements with Alice Coltrane-- an interesting set, but I'm not sure if  I would call it essential.

[Grazioso]

You're totally full of crap. From the get go Jaco played for the music  .. again, go back and listen to the music on the albums he left behind (start with WR) and remove your head from your rump.

Folks, we're almost to our goal! If you've enjoyed listening to James babble incoherently and insult people randomly this past year, please consider making a pledge to support him. For your pledge of $50, you're not only supporting the "Pfft!" you can only find here on GMG, but you'll also get this handsome "Out of your depth!" tote bag. For a generous pledge of $100, you'll receive the tote bag plus a "I don't have time to explain it to you!" bumper sticker.

Please, won't you call? Operators are standing by.

[Brahmsian]

Folks, we're almost to our goal! If you've enjoyed listening to James babble incoherently and insult people randomly this past year, please consider making a pledge to support him. For your pledge of $50, you're not only supporting the "Pfft!" you can only find here on GMG, but you'll also get this handsome "Out of your depth!" tote bag. For a generous pledge of $100, you'll receive the tote bag plus a "I don't have time to explain it to you!" bumper sticker.

Please, won't you call? Operators are standing by.

  I have my credit card in hand - all I need is the number!   

[jowcol]

  I have my credit card in hand - all I need is the number!   

I want the Platinum Membership, where someone from GMG will visit my home, assess my music collection, and tell me that my collection is crap. 
I can't live without this service!  I live in mortal fear that I may be listening to some art music and not know what it is!

[jowcol]

Trane on the otherhand was a relentless, dominating central force and presence on the stuff he was doing .. it was really centered on him.

Although, one may wish to take into consideration that at least twice he took soloists into the band that struck the critics as more experimental than him-- Eric Dolphy and Pharaoh Sanders.

[Grazioso]

Joe Henderson is who I'm listening to today.  Right now, Lush Life: The Music of Billy Strayhorn



The tracks range from solo sax on the title song to bass/sax duo, piano-less trio, quartet and a quintet with Wynton Marsalis - a lot of variety and the song selection is top notch.  This CD was considered a "comeback" for him, although for most jazz musicians Henderson never "left" and he was the predominant sax player when I was in NYC, throughout the 80s, all the young guys were doing "his thing".

Great records include all the Blue Note dates, Page One, In 'n' Out, Mode for Joe and the one-off EMI disc Our Thing, then later in his career the above mentioned Lush Life, and his tribute to Miles, So Near, So Far and Porgy & Bess.  His live date of 1985 at the Vanguard with Ron Carter and Al Foster, State of the Art of the Tenor, Henderson pays tribute to Sonny Rollins, and this 2-CD recording has him at the top of his game.

In between those periods Joe Henderson went through a decade or so in the late '60s, through the 70s where he made some mediocre dates for Milestone - but there is not a Joe Henderson date that does not have at least something on it that is very much worthwhile.  The Kicker, from 1968, is especially good.

Another Henderson fan here. He was always a distinctive voice. In addition to the great Blue Note leader dates you suggested, he helped created a number of other classics of the era, such as:

[Grazioso]

In the earlier periods they were both definitely constrained & directed within the confines of the music they were doing, and how they were using their instruments too .. things did eventually open & 'free up' a bit more for both in later eras (by their own creative necessity), eventually to exhaustion .. but Miles did have a keener insight about musicians and used that talent to change things up more often and in more ways; adding new ideas and voices to the mix, even if he wasn't entirely sure where it would take the music .. his conception was much wider & more colorful than Trane's was; and its one of the main reasons why he stayed pretty relevant and contemporary with the times. Once he had felt he had exhausted or got tired of working within a given framework, he was quickly looking around for other avenues to keep it fresh. He knew that trying to speak to newer generations with music he had already done before was ridiculous; change was essential, even if  a certain segment of the older generation fans couldn't tolerate it - he couldn't wait for them to catch up. As a player he was definitely more restrained and had a more musically balanced approach within the context of the music he was doing. Trane on the otherhand was a relentless, dominating central force and presence on the stuff he was doing .. it was really centered on him.

Yea it was a basic format .. Trane never really explored musical color or texture (among other things) all that much. It was pretty static .. but he worked to the limit within those narrow parameters to the point of creative exhaustion.

This misses one obvious, painful point: Both men were born in 1926. Trane died in 1967 at the age of 40. Miles lived to 1991, aged 65.

For Miles, 1967 was the year of Miles Smiles and Sorcerer. Miles's electric/fusion bands came only after Trane was gone. By 1967, Trane had already recorded albums like Ascension. We can only guess how Trane would have continued evolving if he had lived a few more decades.

[Grazioso]

Yep - those are all great records.  I specially like the Tyner.  Search for Peace is a supremely great track.

The Real McCoy is my favorite of those three. All the tracks are excellent, and Elvin's "melodic" cymbal work on "Passion Dance" is superb.

[DavidRoss]

Alas! Someone has removed a number of posts on this thread that raised it's entertainment value by at least 400%. Has Q discovered an interest in noises about jazz?

[jowcol]

Yep - those are all great records.  I specially like the Tyner.  Search for Peace is a supremely great track.

Contemplation from "The Real McCoy" is my favorite example of the Elvin Jones/McCoy Tyner groove.  A haunting track I've been known to leave on repeat for an hour or two.

[escher]

I admit to not being a fan of the song "Giant Steps" - IMO it is more like an exercise than a performance, but most of the rest of the album Giant Steps I love: "Cousin Mary", "Niama", "Mr. P.C." are all great.  My favorite Trane is with the classic quartet,  though, albums Cresent, Love Supreme - but the Atlantic sides are not far behind, like My Favorite Things and Coltrane Plays the Blues.

i agree completely on giant steps, i think that the "coltrane changes" are much better used in the bridge of Have you met miss jones. It seems to me that is great fame is due exactly to the changes more than to the beauty of the piece.
And i agree also on your selection (especially on Crescent and the obvious love supreme), though i would add at least Olè (i love the title track but i would put Aisha on the same level of Naima) and the live at village vanguard (i especially like India) and Afro blue impressions (great selection of tracks). And Africa brass too, mostly because there's The damned don't cry (written by Cal Massey, a musician who deserves to be more known)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7JpqYzoS7w

[Grazioso]

Alas! Someone has removed a number of posts on this thread that raised it's entertainment value by at least 400%. Has Q discovered an interest in noises about jazz?

Q can make his own noise!

http://www.youtube.com/v/VBTRp80Q64U