Tchaikovsky Symphonies complete

[kishnevi]

My only complete set:


Pyotr Ilyich not being my favorite composer, I'm quite content with this, although I have various individual recordings of most of the symphonies.   Includes the Manfred.   It sounds appropriately soft and sweet when needed, but not too extreme, which I would hate. The only symphony on which it sounds definitely outclassed is the Fourth, and that's because my preference there is for Solti's recording, which has an Allegro con fouco] that definitely has some fouco.  In the other works,  it needs no apologizing to anyone.

[zamyrabyrd]

Oi! Yes, but I didn't really enjoy them that much. You can see my reaction to #5 here: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg464552.html#msg464552. I expected much more. But I am glad you enjoyed them anyway.

There are really lots of good sets out there. MI posted a bunch of them, though others include Dorati, Karajan, Litton, Pletnev, and Haitink (if memory serves, he did do one of those). Maazel did a decent 1-3 and Ashkenazy did a good 4-6 (both Decca Doubles, or were anyway). The recent Gatti box is a great bargain for 4-6 as well. Highly recommend that if the price is still great - superb performances in good sound. Temirkanov did a set that doesn't seem to get much love. I haven't heard that one. Rozhdestvensky did 4-6, though they are all issued separately. Pappano did 4-6 ok. Anyway, just a few to consider!

Mezzo is my daily lifeline to classical music, so I am happy to find someone else who tuned in also.  I don't remember the clarinet being flat in the beginning of No. 5 but I can check when it comes back again. 

Many rubatos that we are not used to hearing in Tchaikovsky's music are actually written in the scores. What impressed me was the sense of overall line, with everything fitting in from beginning to end with no let up in intensity. If this is done in a convincing manner, one can agree to disagree.

I thought it was a little odd though, with all the care that was spent in editing, Gergiev was about the only one not clean shaven, wearing a Nehru jacket a bit lopsided while everyone else wore standard black jackets and the women were well fitted out and made up. There was even a spot of a sparking diamond ring on the bow hand of a woman cellist.

ZB

[mc ukrneal]

Mezzo is my daily lifeline to classical music, so I am happy to find someone else who tuned in also.  I don't remember the clarinet being flat in the beginning of No. 5 but I can check when it comes back again. 

Many rubatos that we are not used to hearing in Tchaikovsky's music are actually written in the scores. What impressed me was the sense of overall line, with everything fitting in from beginning to end with no let up in intensity. If this is done in a convincing manner, one can agree to disagree.

I thought it was a little odd though, with all the care that was spent in editing, Gergiev was about the only one not clean shaven, wearing a Nehru jacket a bit lopsided while everyone else wore standard black jackets and the women were well fitted out and made up. There was even a spot of a sparking diamond ring on the bow hand of a woman cellist.

ZB

Oh, we love that channel. We check it regularly.

Tempi in the piece (and rubato) are always an issue (meaning the conductor/orchestra must make a number of decisions on this point), particularly in the last movement. I thought he did a bit better there in the last two movements. 

Hah! He always has the 5 o'clock shadow/closely cut beard look. I think it's an image thing. I can't even remember seeing him clean shaven anymore! Maybe I never did - don't remember.

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, the Muti is quite good indeed. I own several Manfred Symphony recordings: Muti, Pletnev, Jansons, Masur, Tilson Thomas, Petrenko, Rostropovich, Chailly, and Jurowski.

Crikey!

Well, I want to get a version by a Russian orchestra/conductor, which I try to do with all my Russian music. It may not have any real value-added, I don't know for sure, but when the opportunity arises I'll take it every time.   David appears to favor Pletnev, and I see you have it listed. It would be a good choice? 

[mc ukrneal]

Crikey!

Well, I want to get a version by a Russian orchestra/conductor, which I try to do with all my Russian music. It may not have any real value-added, I don't know for sure, but when the opportunity arises I'll take it every time.   David appears to favor Pletnev, and I see you have it listed. It would be a good choice? 

I know your question was directed elsewhere, but this is a version I enjoy - a lot. But not everyone does. There seems to be a wide opinion of views on this - from professional reviewers to avid listeners. For some this is a reason to try it - for others a reason to avoid. Regardless, the sound is excellent, as is the playing. I'll give you these posts from GMG history - they may help: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1097.msg27413.html#msg27413.

I know you wanted Russians and all, but Muti is really good with Tchaikovsky, and no less so here. I've not heard Patrenko (who received raves and is on Naxos) or Jurowski. Patrenko can be had for $7 on Amazon MP, which seems like a risk worth taking to me (and at this price, actually considering myself).

[Brahmsian]

I have the Muti set, and it is honestly one of the most listened to box sets in my collection.  I still haven't warmed up to the Manfred, yet.  Also, the Polish is not yet on my extensive repeat list, compared to everything else of Tchaikovsky's.

[Gurn Blanston]

I know your question was directed elsewhere, but this is a version I enjoy - a lot. But not everyone does. There seems to be a wide opinion of views on this - from professional reviewers to avid listeners. For some this is a reason to try it - for others a reason to avoid. Regardless, the sound is excellent, as is the playing. I'll give you these posts from GMG history - they may help: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1097.msg27413.html#msg27413.

I know you wanted Russians and all, but Muti is really good with Tchaikovsky, and no less so here. I've not heard Patrenko (who received raves and is on Naxos) or Jurowski. Patrenko can be had for $7 on Amazon MP, which seems like a risk worth taking to me (and at this price, actually considering myself).

Thanks for the input, amigo. Interesting to read those comments from my old friend Lilas Pastia, and your own feedback too. As I see it stacking up, maybe I just keep what I have for now and see what else comes along down the road. I don't feel any compelling need to make a change, after all.

[Drasko]

Well, I want to get a version by a Russian orchestra/conductor

Konstantin Symeonov with USSR State TV & Radio Grand Symphony Orchestra on Vista Vera.

Mezzo is my daily lifeline to classical music, so I am happy to find someone else who tuned in also.  I don't remember the clarinet being flat in the beginning of No. 5 but I can check when it comes back again. 

Many rubatos that we are not used to hearing in Tchaikovsky's music are actually written in the scores. What impressed me was the sense of overall line, with everything fitting in from beginning to end with no let up in intensity. If this is done in a convincing manner, one can agree to disagree.

I thought it was a little odd though, with all the care that was spent in editing, Gergiev was about the only one not clean shaven, wearing a Nehru jacket a bit lopsided while everyone else wore standard black jackets and the women were well fitted out and made up. There was even a spot of a sparking diamond ring on the bow hand of a woman cellist.

ZB

I've seen 3rd and 6th on Medici TV and 6th has been possibly the best I've heard/seen in years, liberal rubato but sounded completely organic and utterly convincing to me. If it ever comes out on DVD I'll buy it.

[DavidW]

I know you wanted Russians and all, but Muti is really good with Tchaikovsky, and no less so here. I've not heard Patrenko (who received raves and is on Naxos) or Jurowski. Patrenko can be had for $7 on Amazon MP, which seems like a risk worth taking to me (and at this price, actually considering myself).

I'm going to thumbs down that naxos recording, many dull moments.  And Muti is in general a bland conductor, I would be interested in hearing Maazel though, didn't know he did the Manfred, he is an awesome conductor!

[Gurn Blanston]

Konstantin Symeonov with USSR State TV & Radio Grand Symphony Orchestra on Vista Vera.

Excellent, thanks. I hate reinventing the wheel when someone else has already done that.

edit: That would be this one;



which is out of stock right now, but maybe not forever.

[karlhenning]

. . .  And Muti is in general a bland conductor . . . .

Not at all in this Tchaikovsky box, I am pleased to report!  He draws from the orchestra a Gergievly fire, without the . . . eccentricities.

[Mirror Image]

I'm going to thumbs down that naxos recording, many dull moments.  And Muti is in general a bland conductor, I would be interested in hearing Maazel though, didn't know he did the Manfred, he is an awesome conductor!

Actually, I find Maazel to be incredibly bland and Muti to a much better conductor. Have you heard Muti's recording of Respighi's Roman Trilogy on EMI? This specific recording is one of the most fearsome performances of these works I've heard.

Maazel, in my opinion, generally seems like he just goes "through the motions" and doesn't put any thought into the performances. He's just a conductor I avoid as much as I can.

[zamyrabyrd]

I've seen 3rd and 6th on Medici TV and 6th has been possibly the best I've heard/seen in years, liberal rubato but sounded completely organic and utterly convincing to me. If it ever comes out on DVD I'll buy it.

The 6th, ah, the 6th!!!! I tuned in a little late but got the last three movements.  The cellos were like velvet in the Waltz... the brass in the 3rd movement, oh my, to usher in the horsemen of the apocalypse!!! At the end the higher instruments having dropped out, was the final denouement, then silence, with Gergiev's hand slowly closing, this time not only leading the orchestra but the audience as well. Yes, I'd like to buy the DVD if and when it comes out.

ZB

[Cato]

Quote from: Cato on May 22, 2009, 06:51:10 PM

I have always wondered why Mravinsky had not recorded the first 3 symphonies!

Has anybody read a biography with the answer?  Did he consider them inferior?

Most interesting question, and no, I haven't read a biography . . . .

I have again quickly checked throughout the Internet and have no answer.

On Manfred: RCA used to offer a slam-dunk version (with deletions, unfortunately (or maybe not so unfortunately     )  , mainly in the last movement, to fit onto a 33 1/3 LP) with Toscanini conducting his NBC Orchestra.

I recall the performance dated from the early 1950's.

[Drasko]

I have always wondered why Mravinsky had not recorded the first 3 symphonies!

No idea really, but maybe this post could shed some small amount of light on the matter:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,11288.msg280443.html#msg280443

Excellent, thanks. I hate reinventing the wheel when someone else has already done that.

edit: That would be this one;



which is out of stock right now, but maybe not forever.

Yes, that would be the one, but Vista Vera is very poor when it comes to distribution, so you might wait forever if you're waiting for amazon. If you'd like to get it any time before my advice is to check Russian sellers on ebay or Ruslania webstore.

[DavidW]

Have you heard Muti's recording of Respighi's Roman Trilogy on EMI? This specific recording is one of the most fearsome performances of these works I've heard.

I'll have to check it out, I'm due a sonic upgrade on those anyway, I just have a poorly mastered recording from Ormady.

Maazel, in my opinion, generally seems like he just goes "through the motions" and doesn't put any thought into the performances. He's just a conductor I avoid as much as I can.

Oh not even the Bruckner 8th?

[zamyrabyrd]

Quote from: Cato on May 22, 2009, 06:51:10 PM
On Manfred: RCA used to offer a slam-dunk version (with deletions, unfortunately (or maybe not so unfortunately) , mainly in the last movement, to fit onto a 33 1/3 LP) with Toscanini conducting his NBC Orchestra.

I recall the performance dated from the early 1950's.

The Manfred Symphony seems to be either loved or hated.  Leonard Bernstein supposedly didn't record it because he couldn't stand it.  I just thought that Toscanini would be great with this, so looked it up.  "Music and Arts" actually made the 1953 live recording available on CD.  If you subscribe to Naxos online, you can hear it direct.
http://www.musicandarts.com/HistoricalClassical.html#CD-4658

Apparently, Tchaikovsky had a running correspondence with Balakirev who was urging him to put Byron's story of Manfred to music that Berlioz refused. He didn't like the idea at first but after a couple years, decided to do it, enjoying the work of composition at first but remained ambivalent about the results, even considering to destroy the last movements. Without even a slight knowledge of the program, the piece doesn't make much sense.

Musically, I suppose, it was not considered a proper symphony as it didn't much subscribe to sonata form.  So it lies somewhere in the middle of his symphonies and tone poems.

As expected, Toscanini delivers the lightning bolt at the end of the first movement. Previn with the London Phil (1997) does this well and the instruments are very clear but without that gripping intensity.  Svetlanov is also very good (1985). The last two are on youtube.

ZB

[Harry]

For my money I would vote firstly for Herbert von Karajan's interpretations, and secondly Ricardo Muti on EMI, wonderful renditions, that made me sit upright every time I played them. Karajan is more into the finer details of it all, and his interpretations flow more suavely. I have Mariss Janson on Chandos too, but those are proverbial duds for me, this guy is to relaxed and conservative. And I have a soft spot for the interpretations by Gennadi Rozhdestvensky with the London SO, idiomatic, and truly felt Tchaikovsky. This composer is far more complicated to perform as some conductors think.

[Mirror Image]

I'll have to check it out, I'm due a sonic upgrade on those anyway, I just have a poorly mastered recording from Ormady.

Oh not even the Bruckner 8th?

Okay, maybe I was a little harsh in regards to Maazel. I think he did an admirable job with Respighi's Roman Trilogy and he also turned in a great Pictures At An Exhibition. It seems he does better with works that are more showy than profound. He also turned in a great Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet that I still play from time to time, but I think with the more "heavy" works from composers like Bruckner or Mahler or Sibelius he fails to convince me.

[greg]

My only complete set:


Pyotr Ilyich not being my favorite composer, I'm quite content with this, although I have various individual recordings of most of the symphonies.   Includes the Manfred.   It sounds appropriately soft and sweet when needed, but not too extreme, which I would hate. The only symphony on which it sounds definitely outclassed is the Fourth, and that's because my preference there is for Solti's recording, which has an Allegro con fouco] that definitely has some fouco.  In the other works,  it needs no apologizing to anyone.

Where did you get that? I got that set from Borders, and you probably don't live that far from me, so it's probably one that finds its way into CD stores over here for some reason.