Greatest 20th Century Symphonies

[springrite]

Jeffrey set a precedent of three, and I don't believe I could endorse only a set of three as "the greatest";  nor am I sure where to stop, once I removed the brake from five three.

If you can expand on that a bit, you may move it to the Monty Python thread, I do believe.

[karlhenning]

Couldn't do that to our esteemed Jeffrey, Paul.

[Cato]

Perhaps their advocates have just not yet posted, but I find what is NOT here interesting.

e.g.

Nobody has listed the symphonies of Copland, Henze, or Penderecki.

[karlhenning]

Perhaps their advocates have just not yet posted, but I find what is NOT here interesting.

e.g.

Nobody has listed the symphonies of Copland, Henze, or Penderecki.

Holmboe

[springrite]

Perhaps their advocates have just not yet posted, but I find what is NOT here interesting.

e.g.

Nobody has listed the symphonies of Copland, Henze, or Penderecki.

Copland's Short Symphony was mentioned. Personally, if I were to name a Copland symphony I'd say the Organ Symphony. Of the Polish symphonist, I much prefer Luto.

[karlhenning]

Copland's Short Symphony was mentioned. Personally, if I were to name a Copland symphony I'd say the Organ Symphony.

The Short Symphony is fine (though, well, short).  The Organ Symphony is on my to-listen-to list.  The Copland Third is the strongest of his symphonies that I've heard.

[karlhenning]

Cato! Did you list Toch? 

[Cato]

Cato! Did you list Toch? 

I am...now!   

Ernst Toch came to the symphonic form rather late, and his works in general are compact, 20-30 minutes, with a modest-sized orchestra, but highly worthwhile.

I would in fact give them the edge over Henze.

And David Diamond anyone?  He whom Schoenberg anointed "an American Bruckner." (!?)

[Joe Barron]

I haven't 'bellied up' to the thread, because . . . Jeffrey set a precedent of three, and I don't believe I could endorse only a set of three as "the greatest";  nor am I sure where to stop, once I removed the brake from five three.

Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number be reached, then lobbest thou thy holy handgrenade towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.

[Brian]

I wanted to mention Langgaard, but couldn't decide on which one to mention.

[jochanaan]

I kindly request those participating in this, um, opinion poll or sorts to tell the rest us why you think the symphonies are "great." Only listing the symphonies -- and somehow most of you have restricted yourselves to only three even though Jeffrey didn't explicitly mention a limit -- seems to make this yet another "favourites thread." One is not required to provide justification to name a bunch of symphonies as one's favourites, but the same cannot be said about calling a work "great" or "greatest." [This, of course, doesn't apply to those who have said something about their choices. ]

Being an outsider to 20th century music, your views might help me understand the music better. Even a little a bit will be good. Thanks.

That's a reasonable request.

Hindemith's Symphony in Eb is serious, intense, complex and strongly integrated; the themes of each movement include the same three-note cell (Eb, F, Ab in the first movement, with a few "extra" notes; inverted in the second and third movements, and with even more "extra" notes in the fourth movement).

Hovhaness' "Mysterious Mountain" is both atmospheric and formally strong, including lots of canons; same with "Mount Saint Helens.

Hanson's "Romantic" is unabashedly Romantic and lovely, with no lack of formal strength.

And Schuman's Eighth is proof that a composer can use modernistic technique and style yet create an intense, moving masterwork.

But this isn't quite enough to explain greatness.  Each of these symphonies just seems to have that certain something...

[Dundonnell]

Hartmann's entire output, but especially the Sixth Symphony.

Ives Symphony #4.

Mahler's Symphonies 5-10.

Martinu's entire output, but especially the Fifth Symphony.

Prokofiev's Symphonies 2,3, and 6.

Shostakovich's Tenth Symphony

Zemlinsky's Lyric Symphony.

What......no Glazunov or Pfitzner

[Dundonnell]

I suppose that what intrigues me the most are the choices made by people which puzzle me in one respect or another. It would be really interesting to know why certain symphonies have been mentioned, eg-

Prokofiev's 2nd and 3rd
Milhaud's 3rd
Toch's symphonies

...and much though I love the Harris 3rd, the Piston 2nd and the Hanson 2nd it is fascinating that some people would place these so high

Oh..someone also mentioned the Rachmaninov 2nd My least favourite symphony of the twentieth century

[ChamberNut]

Cannot possibly do the "greatest".  These are so far, my personal favorites (in no order):

Vaughan Williams 6

Shostakovich 10

Mahler 6 and 9

Sibelius 7

[Cato]

What......no Glazunov or Pfitzner

Sorry, they came close, but...no!  And if they were included, you would have to find room for Ferde Grofe!   

[Lilas Pastia]

Thanks, Joe for bringing up Stravinsky's Symphony in Three Movements. I ought to give Carter's Symphonia another hearing (mmust be over 2 years ). I'll reserve judgment for now.

I would go along with Vandermolen's three choices and add Pettersson's 6th. When it comes to Shostakovich and V-W, I agree with the choice of 4 and 6 respectively. But with Sibelius I'd be tempted to think of the 7th as his greatest work. But 6 also has claims for the title. As do Pettersson's 9th. And of course I firmly believe Elgar's two symphonies are as good as any of those. But certainly not as important. Oh, well. It's just too hard!

So, something like this:

- Stravinsky, symphony in 3 mvmts.
- Sibelius: symphony no 7
- Vaghan-Williams symphony no 6
- Pettersson: symphony no 6
- Shostakovich: symphony no 4

Other great symphonists include Kancheli, Norholm, Arnold, Alwyn, and th elist of course goes on and on.

[ChamberNut]

Oh gosh, I forgot about Stavinsky.  Please add the Symphony of Psalms, the Symphony in C and Symphony in Three Movements to my original list. 

[vandermolen]

Not so she will not use it to buy things, I suspect, but rather, so that she cannot see the extent of your recording purchases, yes? I have found that keeping CDs tidy and nicely shelved makes purchases less noticeable... until a new bookcase/shelving unit is required. Keeping books all over makes the need for a new bookcase/shelving unit obvious, so as long as one buys something to accommodate the messy books AND the new recordings, one's buying habits may remain a mystery!  

Yes, this is a correct assessment of the scenario - the amount of books in the house remain another problem ("must you really buy another book?" etc). If it's for work it's ok as the school pays (I'm a history  teacher) but it is difficult to convince her that 'The Penguin Guide to Classical CDs' etc is an essential purchase for my professional work!

[vandermolen]

No, this is a 'greatest' thread and not a 'favourite' thread (I started the thread so I make the rules - right? hehe). Why three only? Well, here is the explanation: As a teenager, when I first discovered clasical music I joined the High Street Kensington and Chelsea music library - where I discovered composers like Miaskovsky, Honegger, Cyril Scott, Klauss Egge, Janis Ivanovs, Allan Pettersson, Patrick Hadley etcetc for the first time (it was a great library). They only let you take out three LPs at a time, so I made my dad join (despite the fact that he only listened to Frank Sinatra) - which meant that I could use his three tickets as well as mine.  This is why all the 'favourites' 'greatest' threads started by me have a limit of three or six.  If I had to agonize over which three or six works to select so can you  . I hope you agree that this is a perfectly rational explanation  

Here are my next three:

Honegger Liturgique Symphony (Karajan's is the best in my opinion)

Miaskovsky Symphony 21 (if you like Sibelius you should like this)

Sibelius Symphony No 3



I agree too about the Gorecki Third Symphony - despite the hype. Hanson would come into my 'favourites' list (No 3 and 4). Copland's Third Symphony is a problem for me - it kind of inhabits a No Man's Land between favourites (and it is a favourite of mine) and greatness - it is also a great symphony - now I am confusing myself 

[Cato]

I suppose that what intrigues me the most are the choices made by people which puzzle me in one respect or another. It would be really interesting to know why certain symphonies have been mentioned, eg-

Prokofiev's 2nd and 3rd

Toch's symphonies

I mentioned the Prokofiev and the Toch Symphonies: for Prokofiev, I find the Beethovenian construction of the Second, along with its wild, nonuple counterpoint, probably the best illustration of Schoenberg's dictum that there were still good possibilities in the future for works in C major!  With the Third Symphony, derived from one of the century's best operas, you receive the impact of that opera emotionally in 30 minutes.

I find the Toch symphonies a bridge between the super-compression of Webern and the unleashed id-monsters of Hartmann.  They are more spiritual than the latter, emotional in a more subtle way, but all are fairly short (most under half an hour) and modest in a Webernesque way.