Parry

[Mirror Image]

Well, that's very interesting news cilgwyn. Thank you for alerting us. Maybe I'm one of the ones you have lined up as only liking the Fifth, although I like No.4 as well. A former colleague things it's Parry's masterpiece. My favourite work by Parry is the Symphonic Variations which I actually prefer to the Enigma Variations, probably as a result of the latter being over-familiar to me.

To the bolded text:

[vandermolen]

To the bolded text:

The EV are the greater work but I enjoy the SV more.

[vandermolen]

So you might buy this?!! I'd buy a copy of Gramophone to read the article on Parry,but I could buy a s/h cd for the price of that magazine! It's "original" five movement form? It does sound intriguing? I'm sure Parry knew what he was doing if he excised it;but then you prefer the earlier version of VW's London Symphony (Which one,I don't know? I find the different versions very confusing?!! ) There's the Hickox "one off",the Dan Godfrey and a Goossen's recording,I believe,that I've never heard!! My head's spinning!! There's also, Langgaard's Fifth in it's earlier form! Composer's aren't always right,it seems! And I'm never quite happy with anything I do!!  Yes,I like all the Parry symphonies. I remember in the original notes,with the Forlane recording of Parry's Third,Bernard Benoliel referred to Parry's Second Symphony,dismissively, as being (I can't recall his exact words) as being rather academic and dull. In his notes with Chandos' premiere recording he seemed to have,with minor reservations,revised his opinion. After actually having heard it being played,I thought! (I like it,myself! )
Anyway,you know more about this sort of thing than me !

I don't know more than you cilgwyn. Yes, all those alternative versions and now there is a version of Copland's iconic Third Symphony with a different coda! I wouldn't bother with the Dan Godfrey version of A London Symphony as he excised sections which Vaughan Williams kept in in all versions. 

[kyjo]

Parry's First Symphony has a wonderfully proto-Elgarian first movement (the main theme has those characteristically Elgarian rising and falling sevenths), but I didn't find the rest of the movements to be as interesting. I had a similar experience with his Second Symphony, which has a very fine opening but eventually lost grip on my attention. I must check out the other symphonies, though...

[vandermolen]

Parry's First Symphony has a wonderfully proto-Elgarian first movement (the main theme has those characteristically Elgarian rising and falling sevenths), but I didn't find the rest of the movements to be as interesting. I had a similar experience with his Second Symphony, which has a very fine opening but eventually lost grip on my attention. I must check out the other symphonies, though...

4 and 5 and the Symphonic Variations are my favourites Kyle. I need to listen to 4 again. A friend gave me No 4 on Chandos as a birthday present some years ago.

[cilgwyn]

I don't think the rest of No's 1 & 2 quite live up to their openings;but they've still got some fine,if Brahmsian,music in them,imho. I like his slow movements. The acid test for me is that I don't find myself twiddling my fingers and looking at the cd display at intervals and ending up turning them off before the end! I think No's 3-5 are the cream of the crop,for me,anyway! I like his shorter orchestral works,too. Chandos' compilation of these on a separate disc makes for an enjoyable listen.

[cilgwyn]

I don't think I know enough to comment on his originality, except by observing that with Parry there's always some Brahms in the background. But even so, Parry does have a distinctive voice in his symphonies, and it's possible to listen to certain passages and think 'that's pure Parry'.

His second (Cambridge) symphony, while not profound, and perhaps a little sweet for some tastes, is actually one of my personal favourite symphonies - full of melody; and the slow movement (one of those 'pure Parry' episodes, has a yearning, romantic quality to it that I like very much, but which won't be everyone's cup of tea.

The third (English) and fourth symphonies are a distinct step forward, and there are passages in them that are so reminiscent of Elgar that one realises that the Elgar 'sound' didn't by any means just appear from nowhere. But the overall tone remains 'Parry', not 'proto-Elgar' (Brahms influence invariably not far away of course). The third and fourth symphonies are both substantial works, and shouldn't have been dismissed from the repertoire in the way they were, and are. I've never quite clicked with the 5th symphony myself, but perhaps I'll warm to it one of these days. The 'Symphonic Variations' (which someone mentioned earlier in this thread) are great fun of course, though I find I exhaust it quickly.

I concur with the observation here on the slow movement of No 2. Yes,"a yearning,romantic quality"! I do like that. I'll have to listen to it again,now!!

[cilgwyn]

It's all too easy to forget the impact of those Chandos sets of Parry symphonies,when they came out. I remember the Gramophone ads. I remember thinking;"Wow!" Stanford wrote seven?!! Only a few years before no one could have imagined that in only few years time a recording label would record the whole lot,with a fine orchestra and all the trimmings! I was one of the minority who actually preferred Parry's cycle to Stanford's. Although,I liked the third with the reels and jigs!! I actually disposed of the Stanford symphonies later on;partly because of lack of room. A charity shop got them! I kept the Parry cycle. I remember giving the cd of Stanford's Seventh to my late mother. I remember playing it a few times and not being too impressed. Nice of me to give it to her!! But hopefully,I just thought she might enjoy it?!! I recently played that cd and really enjoyed it. None of the music was particularly original,and obviously,even when it was written,it was a "throwback" to an earlier era;but what finely crafted music;and the old boy really knew how to orchestrate. I love the clarity of it. It has a cleansing effect. I enjoyed the "fill-up" items,too! I think I will end up re-buying some of them?! If I do,I don't think I'll bother with the first two,though?!

[Figaro]

For me, Parry is a close second to Bax in terms of being the unsung English composer most thoroughly deserving of a central place in the Canon (of English music at least). His comparative neglect is perhaps even more puzzling than Bax, because the latter was the contemporary of Elgar and Vaughan Williams; yet most of Parry's work sits in the supposed 'Dark Age' of English music between Purcell and Elgar.

Yes, on one level, by the standards of late-19th century european art-music Parry is certainly not a revolutionary composer and is indeed a conservative one. I often find his music constrained by a timidness, perhaps a fear of being deemed gauche, that perhaps typifies a certain kind of Englsihness - ironically perhaps the same attitude that today contributes to Parry's neglect from people unwilling to see the virtues of someone so decidedly unfashionable.

What Parry certainly isn't is boring or derivative; like Stanford (whom to my mind, though certainly having his merits, is strictly inferior to Parry) he bridges the gap between Brahms and Elgar and should deservedly be considered a revolutionary *in its context*. He is the first great English symphonist and his music really should be regular feature of our concert halls.

[kyjo]

Thanks for your insightful post, Figaro. I must confess that I find the majority of Parry's music to be rather formulaic and lacking in memorability - it's all very well-crafted and often quite energetic but just seems to be "going through the motions" to me. A recent listen to the 2nd Symphony confirmed this impression for me. Two exceptions to this rule I've encountered so far are the 3rd Symphony and Symphonic Variations which are very fine, robust works. I'm not familiar with most of his choral works. Unlike you, I generally much prefer Stanford, whose 3rd and 6th symphonies, Irish Rhapsodies, and various chamber works I find to be very engaging and melodious works.

[vandermolen]

Yes, interesting comment from Figaro. The best Parry disc that I know is Sir Adrian Boult's final ever recording featuring my two favourite works by Parry, the Symphonic Variations and the 5th Symphony. I think that Stanford and Parry were great teachers rather than great composers.

[Symphonic Addict]

Besides some of his orchestral works, I've also enjoyed this release that contains his music for string quartet. They're not eart-shattering stuff, but quite charming and lovely the SQs are:

[VonStupp]

Some of Parry's finest inspiration is to be found in his choral music. He wrote prolifically so it fortunate that some of his best works have been recorded

So, today I surveyed Hubert Parry's orchestrated cantatas: The Soul's Ransom, The Lotos-Eaters, and Invocation to Music; ones I hadn't heard before. I have crossed paths with his coronation anthems Blest Pair of Sirens and I Was Glad previously, and here I think Parry is ultimately more successful with brevity on his side. I have not explored his oratorios Judith or Job yet, though.

My initial reaction is, I found all of these to be a bit academic. It seems when writing for large-scale chorus and orchestra, Parry can't escape the looming traditions of Bach and Handel, and through them, Mendelssohn, which makes his music sound a mite dusty. His texts are more flowery than meaningful (at least compared to VW, and maybe Holst), although his musical language is thoroughly Romantic, and so these works are never less than pleasant. They would certainly be good Victorian choral society works and the LPO climaxes are always super-charged.

Invocation to Music has a bit more character than the other two, and the subtitle An Ode in Honour to Purcell is apt. This is one I will be happy to revisit again, although I think there is still only one recording.

As to the performance, the soloists were surprisingly a bit hit and miss, and I could have imagined a little more urgency from Bamert, who seems to gild the lily a fair bit more than I would like.

I am going to try some others, and revisit these again, hopefully tomorrow.



On a side note, I knew Parry and Stanford were contemporaneous, but I didn't realize Elgar was right there with them. I always considered him to be a little more modern.

[Mirror Image]

Yes, interesting comment from Figaro. The best Parry disc that I know is Sir Adrian Boult's final ever recording featuring my two favourite works by Parry, the Symphonic Variations and the 5th Symphony. I think that Stanford and Parry were great teachers rather than great composers.

I own this recording as well and, honestly, Parry's 5th is the only work of his that I enjoy with any frequency. Give me Elgar any day over Parry.

[vandermolen]

I own this recording as well and, honestly, Parry's 5th is the only work of his that I enjoy with any frequency. Give me Elgar any day over Parry.

I like the 5th Symphony and the Symphonic Variations very much. A former colleague thought v highly of the 4th Symphony.

[Albion]

The September releases from Chandos include the premier commercial recording of Parry's "Prometheus Unbound" (Gloucester Three Choirs Festival, 1880). This is an important early work and Parry's first major choral score. William Vann is the conductor, having already made a fine recording of "Judith" (1888) for Chandos...



https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9511603--parry-scenes-from-shelleys-prometheus-unbound

In 1980 the work was revived under Vernon Handley, but was severely let down by the usual hamming of Brian Raynor Cook and a tenor who simply couldn't cope with the tessitura demanded by the role of Jupiter...

[kyjo]

I realize I haven't had very kind things to say about Parry' music in the past, but recently I was prompted to revisit his 4th (Bamert) and 5th (Boult) symphonies, and I'm very glad I did:




One thing that struck me about these works is their true nobility of utterance - there's nothing "cheap" or trite here. The 4th Symphony from 1889 very much presages Elgar in a number of passages, as it was composed before any of Sir Edward's mature works. There's a real grandeur about this music as it sweeps along in large, unbroken paragraphs. And that slow movement - gorgeous! From over 20 years later, the 5th Symphony (Symphonic Fantasia 1912) doesn't sound too much more "modern" except for a few imaginatively orchestrated passages, but that's hardly a problem. It's a wonderfully "glowing" and rather personal work. The Symphonic Variations is a robust, vigorous, and concise work with some great horn writing (as do the other works), and the Elegy for Brahms is a wholly sincere tribute to a composer he greatly admired (it often sounds very much like Brahms, and wonderfully so!). The LPO under Boult give thoroughly committed and involving performances of the last three works; it's pity Boult didn't also record the 4th Symphony.

Do other members have any other particular favorite Parry works besides these?

[Roasted Swan]

I realize I haven't had very kind things to say about Parry' music in the past, but recently I was prompted to revisit his 4th (Bamert) and 5th (Boult) symphonies, and I'm very glad I did:




One thing that struck me about these works is their true nobility of utterance - there's nothing "cheap" or trite here. The 4th Symphony from 1889 very much presages Elgar in a number of passages, as it was composed before any of Sir Edward's mature works. There's a real grandeur about this music as it sweeps along in large, unbroken paragraphs. And that slow movement - gorgeous! From over 20 years later, the 5th Symphony (Symphonic Fantasia 1912) doesn't sound too much more "modern" except for a few imaginatively orchestrated passages, but that's hardly a problem. It's a wonderfully "glowing" and rather personal work. The Symphonic Variations is a robust, vigorous, and concise work with some great horn writing (as do the other works), and the Elegy for Brahms is a wholly sincere tribute to a composer he greatly admired (it often sounds very much like Brahms, and wonderfully so!). The LPO under Boult give thoroughly committed and involving performances of the last three works; it's pity Boult didn't also record the 4th Symphony.

Do other members have any other particular favorite Parry works besides these?

Another spot-on post Kyjo!  A bit like Mahler+Bruckner, Parry+Stanford are always lumped together but I have to say as a body of work I prefer Parry even though Stanford at his most inspired can be wonderful too.  Personally I find that too often Stanford's fluent technique substitutes for genuine inspiration.  But as you hint at in your post this is a quality that can be found in several/many of Parry's scores.

The Boult disc you mention was his very last studio recording - and a rather wonderfully valedictory one it is too.  For many years before that EMI LP there was almost nothing for the record collector except for collector except for "Blest Pair of Sirens" and the ubiquitous "I Was Glad".  I'm no royalist but I do find the latter just wonderful.  Especially in the large-scale recording such as this one;



Actually that's a pretty wonderful disc all round.  But the Parry from Phillip Ledger recorded in Kings College Chapel with a large and enthusiastic student choir plus extra brass from Kneller Hall and the New Philharmonia is genuinely awe-inspiring.

I fnd his late Songs of Farewell to be powerfully moving too.  I enjoy all 5 symphonies although I think you are right that the later ones are the most individual/impressive.  But for a 19th Century Symphony pre-Elgar I think No.2 "Cambridge" is as good as any (Albion will probably disagree!).  I must admit I don't know his chamber music as well as perhaps I should and I'm not a great fan of his string orchestra works.  Well-crafted but without the emotional range that he did find elsewhere.

[Albion]

The new Chandos recording of Parry's "Prometheus Unbound" is splendid - forget the 1980 Vernon Handley broadcast with the ghastly Brian Rayner Cook: this has all the voluptuousness that the work really demands rather than a dry BBC studio acoustic. The score has much more heart in it than "Judith". Plus, "Blest Pair of Sirens" actually bloody MOVES and is probably the best version that I've ever heard! I hope that William Vann gets to record more, especially "De Profundis", "A Song of Darkness and Light", "Ode to Music" and "The Pied Piper of Hamelin"...

[vandermolen]

I like this CD very much as it contains my favourite version of the Symphonic Variations. Vaughan Williams often said that Parry's 'Blest Pair of Sirens' was the greatest British choral work of the 19th Century. However, my own take on this is that VW had a certain resentment of Elgar (who had refused to take him on as a pupil). I have no real evidence for this but it rings true to me.