Erik Satie

Started by Michel, May 31, 2007, 02:14:26 PM

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George

Quote from: snyprrr on March 24, 2018, 08:01:36 AM
Tharaud's Satie is IT!!!! ...just my opinion, but WOW on sound quality and delicacy! A Whole Cycle Please!!!

Seek out his Poulenc on Arion CD.
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

snyprrr

Pianists known more for their AvantGarde are the ones I seem to be most interested in hearing...


It does seem as if no Pianist trying to tackle most all of Satie has managed to squelch all criticism,... Satie Lovers a picky bunch, eh?!!


After spending a few days with my old chum, I'm convinced that the 5 NOCTURNES are Satie's Piano Masterpieces, and I can't see any real argument against that assumption. I mean, seriously, the "rare air" that seems to have been following Satie's whole career flowers in these pieces with such delicacy and mystery as to ... gulp... transcend Faure!?!!? Who has lovelier Piano Works than these? (I forget which one I melt to)



Schleiermacher pairs the Gymnopedies with LISZT!! Are there any other recitals that contain the Gymnopedie(s) in a Composer-varied recital?

Gorisek has a very particularly delectable Piano Image, but it scares me for some reason...

Anyone hip on the Austbo?- heard some nice examples...




1899-19(09)

The 'Academic' Period... the Chorals, the Exercises, the Fugues, the bits and pieces... for me, there are A COUPLE of nuggets here, but, just listening, yes, they do simply sound a lot like "my first exercise"... ha, maybe I'll finally try a hand at it!! :laugh:





GETTING SATIESFACTION!! 8)

Mirror Image

I bought this De Leeuw recording the other day and quite looking forward to it:



I listened a sampled a bit of this recording via YT and was quite impressed. Yes, De Leeuw plays slowly, but the result is gorgeous as if time has been suspended. Proto-minimalism perhaps?

snyprrr

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 27, 2018, 07:59:46 PM
I bought this De Leeuw recording the other day and quite looking forward to it:



I listened a sampled a bit of this recording via YT and was quite impressed. Yes, De Leeuw plays slowly, but the result is gorgeous as if time has been suspended. Proto-minimalism perhaps?

I think you were supposed to get the Philips 2CD instead of that remake, which I hear might have a boomy bass frequency thingy...

I actually went with Vol.5 of Schleiermacher's semi-Cycle, which contain my beloved '5 Nocturnes'  and the 'Reverie de la Enfance de Pantagruel'...



Here's my new Satie "Cycle"


1) Early Works: Leeuw to start with, and then either Schleiermacher or Ciccolini's Vol.2 'Mystical Works'. The Ciccolini has the most amount of pieces

2) 1899-1909: this is the 'Etude' period, along with the uppity bits like 'Jack in the Box' and 'Le Piccadilly'. I'm not all that  attached to the '12 Petite Chorals', 'Mystical Pages', or '6 Pieces from the Period', much less the 20 pieces of bits under the 'Carnet...'title. Either Ciccolini Vol.3(?) or Schleiermacher Vol.4 take care of this period, but itreally is thin stuff

3) 1913-1915: the "humorous" pieces. Ciccolini has ALL of them in his volume.


4) "Late" Pieces- 'Reverie/Pantagruel', 5 Nocturnes, Premiere Menuet: I went out on a limb with Schleiermacher for the Nocturnes,... we'll see... otherwise, the Ciccolini 'Greatest Hits' of Satie has the Nocturnes...


Thibaudet is reminding me of Aimaird: sounds fine until compared with someone with balls...


Ultimately, Ciccolini is the go-to,... oy!, there's sooooooo many others I'm itching to hear, such as Queffellec(?),... I likea lot of Gorisek, though the piano image is almost too strong and good and clear...



pfffffffffffffffffffffft(letting some air out)

snyprrr

Anyone have an idea about who to go for in the 2Pianos Music? Roge/Collard have a few extra pieces, but I'm not sure if I like them the best... looking...looking...

I kinda would like the 2Piano Music separate from the rest

snyprrr

Schleiermacher Vol.5 (MDG)


I had an idea that Schleiermacher might get it right, and the Review seemed to indicate this. Along with what must be that typical MDG sound, how could I go wrong? Well, maybe herion, because that's what SS sounds like he's on playing this music. I'm fine with him playing AvantGarde, but this was the first I'd heard him playing... "music"... and, oy, my lay-friend thought it was the worst MUSIC ever, boring drab and dull. Well, I compared SS's 'Les Pantins Dansent' with Ciccolini, and.... NIGHT&DAY!!...

whew...

I wanted to throw the CD against the wall. >:D


Schleiermacher clanged his way through my beloved 5 Nocturnes... oh, he does do the 6th as well (though, I could probably live without it)... I just couldn't believe how he was handling the material... I had to rush to Ciccolini, Roge, and Thibaudet just to figure out what was going on.

It's shocking, I tell you!!!



This whole "slow Satie" thing.... I'll give it to Leeuw for being first, but Schleiermacher is playing Cage, not Satie, imo.


$10... how can I get it back????

snyprrr

I do love the piano sound given to Gorisek... and he plays pretty straight

snyprrr

Satie's 'Early Years' Mystical Phase seems to abruptly switch over into Dancehall Music around 1899. I believe 'Jack in the Box' is the first Piano Music deLeeuw wouldn't record for his posterity!

I have never seen a recital entitled 'The Dancehall Satie', and I'm not sure I'd go for it myself, but, if Joplin, why not Satie? Here's the bulk of the pieces I'm thinking about. What's your opinion?


Danse de Travers
Caresse
Reverie du Pauvre
Verset...

2 Reveries Nocturnes
Preludes Flasques
Vertitables Preludes Flasques

These are the holdovers from the previous style, or...;.....

Pages Mystiques
Musiques Intimes et Secret
6 Pieces de la Period
12 Petite Chorals
Carnet...

...and these are the collections of exercises and such, which mostly have a dour character. Truly, I only like 'Nostalgie', 'Agrousmnr Disagreables(?)', and 'Song-Creux' (my absolute fav little bit ever!!!). I have agonized over these pieces for decades now and my conclusion is that the are Satie's most expendable inspirations(?). Most truly are no better than a textbook example, his melodies being so much "wallpaper".


Je te veux
Poudre d'Or
The Dreamy Fish
The Angora Ox?
Le Piccadilly
Petite Overture de Danser
Petite Musique pour Clown Triste

(Allegro)
(Valse Ballet)
(Fantasie Valse)

3 Pieces in the Form of A Pear
Apercus Disagreables
En Habit en Cherval... (all the 2Pianos music from the era)

Le Belle Eccentrique
Parade
(Cinema)

Les Pantins Dansent




How would you go about arranging a Dancehall Satie recital? I suppose you'd fit maybe one Gymnopedie and a couple of Gnossienes in there, but it would mostly be "uppity".






I've also been looking into the pieces and works that have come to light since, say, the "Complete" Ciccolini. Pieces like the "monsuieur mouche(?)' and the little 40sec. pieces that seem to INFEST Satie's legacy....

I'D ALMOST RATHER BE FOR A PRUNING OR CULLING instead of this madness to enshrine e.v.e.r.y. s.i.n.g.l.e. n.o.t.e. For every dubious gem, there seems to be a lot of mundane routine (yessss ::), I know it's all soooo ironic and cutting edge and bla bla... shut up!!!!).

'Les fils des eoiles'
'Uspud'

What do you think?

Mirror Image

Can't spend all night deciphering snyprrr's messages, so....to lighten things up a bit, I've been enjoying this Erato set immensely:


Karl Henning

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 08, 2018, 08:25:40 PM
Can't spend all night deciphering snyprrr's messages [...]

Anyway, even if you did, just mightn't be worth the effort, you know.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mirror Image

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 09, 2018, 02:54:02 AM
Anyway, even if you did, just mightn't be worth the effort, you know.

There's probably a lot of truth in that for sure. :)

On a side note, it turns out my Tout Satie! set is corrupted as I'm finding a lot of distortion, especially in the Ciccolini performances, so I returned it for a refund. Oh well it's okay as I have plenty of Satie recordings on the way. 8)

Karl Henning

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 09, 2018, 09:36:48 AM
On a side note, it turns out my Tout Satie! set is corrupted as I'm finding a lot of distortion, especially in the Ciccolini performances, so I returned it for a refund. Oh well it's okay as I have plenty of Satie recordings on the way. 8)

Ugh.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mirror Image

I have to say that the Trois Sarabandes have slipped into my subconscious and have been driving out everything else that's currently in my mind. Thanks a lot, Satie! ::) 'The Velvet Gentleman'? I think not! :D

snyprrr

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 09, 2018, 09:36:48 AM
There's probably a lot of truth in that for sure. :)

On a side note, it turns out my Tout Satie! set is corrupted as I'm finding a lot of distortion, especially in the Ciccolini performances, so I returned it for a refund. Oh well it's okay as I have plenty of Satie recordings on the way. 8)

What's on the way? So far, this is my 87% Complete Edition (from early-to-late):

1) deLeeuw 2CD 'Early Works' (could be supplemented with J.White and/or R.Shimada)

2)Thibaudet 'The Magic of Satie': surprisingly has a number of ultra rare and unique pieces, and side-steps any of the bad on the JYT Cycle.

3)Legrand (Erato) for some Middle Period Works

4) Ciccolini Vol.3 'Fantasist Works': ALL the "humorous works on one album... BAM!! (I don't think anyone else duplicates this feat)

5) Gorisek Vol.7-8: contains all the Piano Music after the Ciccolini, in sweeeeet sound.

6)Roge Vol.3

7)Tharaud


I think it's a good start!

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 09, 2018, 02:11:14 PM
I have to say that the Trois Sarabandes have slipped into my subconscious and have been driving out everything else that's currently in my mind. Thanks a lot, Satie! ::) 'The Velvet Gentleman'? I think not! :D

Who has the best Sarabandes IS the question. DeLeeuw thankfully doesn't bang the piano,... Thibaudet SUUUCKS!!!,... Roge mia,... Austbo very very good,... Entremont ok,...  Gorisek is great/in your face,...

WHO ELSE???

Mirror Image

#154
The more I listen to Satie, the more I become addicted to his music. One of the great things, for me, about his music is how beautifully sparse it is. He can say so much (esp. in his piano music) in five measures than some composers can with an entire thirty minute piece.

One of the most enigmatic figures in 20th Century music and one of endless fascination for me, but we shouldn't allow his innovations and eccentricities outweigh the musical substance of his music. I find myself in a complete trance when I hear works like the Nocturnes or Sarabandes. My discovery of Satie happened many, many years ago when I was watching an interview with guitarist Will Ackerman and he mentioned how Satie's music was a huge inspiration for him. In fact, let me see if I can dig it up here:

https://www.youtube.com/v/TwQrOpEr7Hg

He talks about Satie around 3:20.

Karl Henning

Quote from: snyprrr on April 09, 2018, 04:26:53 PM
Thibaudet SUUUCKS!!!

Don't hold back, snypsss, tell us what you really think.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

DaveF

Quote from: snyprrr on March 27, 2018, 06:26:16 AM
Gorisek has a very particularly delectable Piano Image, but it scares me for some reason...

Perhaps because the man himself looks like someone you wouldn't mess with: http://www.bojangorisek.com/

I must say that, speaking for myself, I find both Gorišek's piano sound and his playing painful in a way that nothing else in my collection can touch.  He can only do two dynamics: ffffffffffffffffffffff and pppppppppppppppppp, he plays a truly horrible piano with a sort of wow-wow-wow to the bass strings like a very cheap electronic keyboard, and with a brittleness to the sound that really physically makes my teeth ache, and so closely recorded that it sounds not only as though the microphone was inside the piano, but that the speakers are inside your head as well.  I bought his whole 10-disc box - luckily only in a charity shop for £8 - and would long ago have thrown it all at the wall, or perhaps just donated it back, were it not for the couple of discs with Jane Manning on them, who alone is worth the money.
"All the world is birthday cake" - George Harrison

Mirror Image

Quote from: DaveF on April 10, 2018, 12:08:28 PM
Perhaps because the man himself looks like someone you wouldn't mess with: http://www.bojangorisek.com/

I must say that, speaking for myself, I find both Gorišek's piano sound and his playing painful in a way that nothing else in my collection can touch.  He can only do two dynamics: ffffffffffffffffffffff and pppppppppppppppppp, he plays a truly horrible piano with a sort of wow-wow-wow to the bass strings like a very cheap electronic keyboard, and with a brittleness to the sound that really physically makes my teeth ache, and so closely recorded that it sounds not only as though the microphone was inside the piano, but that the speakers are inside your head as well.  I bought his whole 10-disc box - luckily only in a charity shop for £8 - and would long ago have thrown it all at the wall, or perhaps just donated it back, were it not for the couple of discs with Jane Manning on them, who alone is worth the money.

I sampled some of Gorišek's Satie amidst my shopping frenzy and found him to quite disappointing for very much the same reasons you gave. The piano is just too 'in your face' and I'm not a fan of that at all. So far, Ciccolini, Tharaud, and Thibaudet have impressed me the most.

Mirror Image

Quote from: snyprrr on April 09, 2018, 04:26:53 PM
What's on the way? So far, this is my 87% Complete Edition (from early-to-late):

1) deLeeuw 2CD 'Early Works' (could be supplemented with J.White and/or R.Shimada)

2)Thibaudet 'The Magic of Satie': surprisingly has a number of ultra rare and unique pieces, and side-steps any of the bad on the JYT Cycle.

3)Legrand (Erato) for some Middle Period Works

4) Ciccolini Vol.3 'Fantasist Works': ALL the "humorous works on one album... BAM!! (I don't think anyone else duplicates this feat)

5) Gorisek Vol.7-8: contains all the Piano Music after the Ciccolini, in sweeeeet sound.

6)Roge Vol.3

7)Tharaud


I think it's a good start!

Who has the best Sarabandes IS the question. DeLeeuw thankfully doesn't bang the piano,... Thibaudet SUUUCKS!!!,... Roge mia,... Austbo very very good,... Entremont ok,...  Gorisek is great/in your face,...

WHO ELSE???

On the way, so far, are the Ciccolini (first cycle 60s-70s) and Thibaudet sets. I also bought both of Ogawa's recordings on BIS which sounded fantastic. I also bought Plasson's recording of the misc. ballets and orchestral works, which sounded great to these ears (I was rather harsh in my earlier assessment of these works) and that Marius Constant recording of Musique d'ameublement and Vexations on Apex (coupled with an unusual Hindemith work that was discussed on the 'Purchases' and 'Listening' threads).

snyprrr

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 10, 2018, 07:14:30 AM
Don't hold back, snypsss, tell us what you really think.

I'll elaborate. The piano sound is to my liking, in spite of the criticisms (I believe one should have both an 'atmospheric' Satie, and a 'dry' one). On some piece, JYT seems to blaze ahead to TopRecommendation- well, I mean, some of the pieces appear to be unique to his Cycle, but,- besides that, I thought he did a few of the single mouvement very well, I thought I heard him having fun.

But, then, woooe, there are the Sarabandes, and the 'Prelude...Ciel', and a few other things I heard that seemed to indicate what one Reviewer decried as sloppy sight reading. The madness is one has to acquire the entire Cycle,... except for the frankly brilliant single disc, 'The Magic of Satie', which contains a good portion of his unique pieces (I think there's also a Japanese version with a few other things).

However, I think most of these pieces are just Songs-without-Words, substantial in duration as some of them are. I'm actually being drawn to pieces such as 'Je te veuw', 'Poudre d'Or', 'The Dreamy Fish, and the more lounge lizard type stuff, JYT notwithstanding in some instances. I think those pieces make great compares between JYT, Roge, Queffelec, Ciccolini, - and , frankly, I think the honoures are more evenly divided than anyone will give credit.

Quote from: DaveF on April 10, 2018, 12:08:28 PM
Perhaps because the man himself looks like someone you wouldn't mess with: http://www.bojangorisek.com/

I must say that, speaking for myself, I find both Gorišek's piano sound and his playing painful in a way that nothing else in my collection can touch.  He can only do two dynamics: ffffffffffffffffffffff and pppppppppppppppppp, he plays a truly horrible piano with a sort of wow-wow-wow to the bass strings like a very cheap electronic keyboard, and with a brittleness to the sound that really physically makes my teeth ache, and so closely recorded that it sounds not only as though the microphone was inside the piano, but that the speakers are inside your head as well.  I bought his whole 10-disc box - luckily only in a charity shop for £8 - and would long ago have thrown it all at the wall, or perhaps just donated it back, were it not for the couple of discs with Jane Manning on them, who alone is worth the money.

I mean, yes, I did say there was something inexplicable about it, scary, but,,... I guess it doesn't sound "cheap" to me,- I hear little tiny metal bubbles (yes, the acoustic is proctologist(?)worthy))))))- BUT, I'm not hearing any harshness, I hear a full, bubbly tone, bright as fuck yes, but I just don't hear any glare or other PenguinGuide words. I like the "rounded" bass :)

I mean, if it IS cheap, maybe Satie should be played on a stand up, LOLOL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:



ok...Performance

I found his 'Sonatine Beaurocratique' scintillating. His Nocturnes right on, perhaps a touch reticent (here I do miss some Roge ambience, though, I still want a "dry" Satie also). But I found the 2Piano works the most sparkling. And Vol.8 has 'Mercure', 'Relache', 'Cinema',...

I mean, I'm mostly talking Vols.7-8 (Gorisek's dividing of discs is maddening), but, honestly, I'd love to get the disc of the Humorist Pieces (Vol.6).

I'LL AGREE WITH YOU that I don't want my 'Mystical' Satie in such a dry space. Here, Gorisek's sound loses me.





He's not my first choice,....but he's consistent and MOR (for the most part)... the recording is certainly "boutique"...

OK, Bojan, I did my part. 8)


Quote from: Mirror Image on April 10, 2018, 08:46:48 PM
On the way, so far, are the Ciccolini (first cycle 60s-70s) and Thibaudet sets. I also bought both of Ogawa's recordings on BIS which sounded fantastic. I also bought Plasson's recording of the misc. ballets and orchestral works, which sounded great to these ears (I was rather harsh in my earlier assessment of these works) and that Marius Constant recording of Musique d'ameublement and Vexations on Apex (coupled with an unusual Hindemith work that was discussed on the 'Purchases' and 'Listening' threads).

I'm surprised you got the earlier Ciccolini. Isn't the sound not optimal for Satie, or is there a ReMastering Miracle here? I'm sure, though, as you compare the steadier Ciccolini to the more wayward (and many times humorless) JYT,

(well, I know better than to ruin your box-opening-day) ;)

I'd be more interested in that Ogawa...

I wonder if deLeeuw played his fortes somewhat mildly because he was trying to evoke the spirit of the Erard?