Erik Satie

snyprrr · April 13, 2018, 02:25:42 PM

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 13, 2018, 10:21:12 AM
Indeed and I thought Thibaudet was going to be 'my thing' whenever I was listening to the few performances of his featured in the Tout Satie! Erato set (which, btw, was all corrupted --- thanks again, Erato). But further exploration, revealed a pianist with very little to say and who doesn't really project the spirt of Satie too well IMHO.

I think he does best in the "cafe" stuff,... I mean, there's still an upside here! At least now you have what appears to be the most comprehensive 'Complete' set,... I mean, I can rattle off what he doesn't do, but, on the basic side.

So, there's that. At least now you can hear all the little trifles and make up your mind...

though...

I would have gone with the 2nd Ciccolini Cycle

I'm starting to warm more and more to Roge- at least he's charming! lol

As I was saying, I believe you have to collect Satie piecemeal.

I gotta go, but there is nothing I'd like better than to continue discussing Satie and Debussy for the foreseeable future!

snyprrr · April 13, 2018, 02:26:22 PM

Oh, and how was the "early" Ciccolini re-master sound?

Mirror Image · April 13, 2018, 03:19:20 PM

I've been listening to Ciccolini's first piano cycle on EMI and absolutely love it so far. Now this is the sound I like in Satie: precise, articulate, brisk, but poetically 'straight' performances. Not the dreary, near comatose twaddle like you get with Thibaudet (and De Leeuw for that matter). Satie isn't all about some kind of dreamy sound-world. He can be downright sardonic and this is missing in Thibaudet and De Leeuw.

Mirror Image · April 13, 2018, 03:44:05 PM

Does anyone know where one can get the full video for this?

https://www.youtube.com/v/xkAoXy7C6dk

Looks really far out and cool.

Mirror Image · April 13, 2018, 08:20:09 PM

Quote from: snyprrr on April 13, 2018, 02:26:22 PM
Oh, and how was the "early" Ciccolini re-master sound?

I'm afraid I don't understand the question. Do you mean early as in Ciccolini's first cycle? I wasn't aware it had been remastered. I do rather like the audio quality of this first cycle (the late 60s/early 70s recordings). The playing from Ciccolini is just my glass of cognac.

snyprrr · April 14, 2018, 06:43:10 AM

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 13, 2018, 03:19:20 PM
I've been listening to Ciccolini's first piano cycle on EMI and absolutely love it so far. Now this is the sound I like in Satie: precise, articulate, brisk, but poetically 'straight' performances. Not the dreary, near comatose twaddle like you get with Thibaudet (and De Leeuw for that matter). Satie isn't all about some kind of dreamy sound-world. He can be downright sardonic and this is missing in Thibaudet and De Leeuw.

I was listening ysome to the 2nd Ciccolini Cycle. Here are some criticisms:

1) The sound is good, buuut, there IS a hint of that digital type hardness- in fortes, the piano(s) can be a little "hard",... this is mid-80s EMI sound, after all,...so, sound-wise, I am rating Ciccolini's 80s Cycle "middle-of-the-road".

2) Breathing and paper rustling in the Gymnopedes...

3) The 2Piano works, when going fff, tend to be a bit aggressive. '3 Pieces in the Form of A Pear' is just a little painful at times.

I just can't really find any interpretive qualms, but I wouldn't want his Gymnopede to be the only one. SO, EXCEPT FOR RESEARCH, I MIGHT RECOMMEND THE WHOLE CYCLE,,, again, Satie seems to want to be collected piecemeal.

snyprrr · April 14, 2018, 06:46:00 AM

That tempting set of 'Early & Esoteric Works' by Simonetto caught my attention, but then I heard his 2:50 Gymnopede and was literally shocked!!! It's just so breezy...wtf...

And then he plays the little 'Verset laique...' and like triple slow,... the inmates are running the asylum!!!!

snyprrr · April 14, 2018, 06:48:37 AM

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 13, 2018, 03:19:20 PM
I've been listening to Ciccolini's first piano cycle on EMI and absolutely love it so far. Now this is the sound I like in Satie: precise, articulate, brisk, but poetically 'straight' performances. Not the dreary, near comatose twaddle like you get with Thibaudet (and De Leeuw for that matter). Satie isn't all about some kind of dreamy sound-world. He can be downright sardonic and this is missing in Thibaudet and De Leeuw.

1) I'm looking into Pontinen on BIS. There just aren't that many recordings of the Nocturnes...

2) Kormendi sounds like a Germanized version of Satie. Some things good, some things not...

snyprrr · April 14, 2018, 07:06:38 AM

I admit I've gotten myself into a Satie pickle here... so much has happened since the early 90s...

Mirror Image · April 14, 2018, 10:00:53 AM

Quote from: snyprrr on April 14, 2018, 06:43:10 AM
I was listening ysome to the 2nd Ciccolini Cycle. Here are some criticisms:

1) The sound is good, buuut, there IS a hint of that digital type hardness- in fortes, the piano(s) can be a little "hard",... this is mid-80s EMI sound, after all,...so, sound-wise, I am rating Ciccolini's 80s Cycle "middle-of-the-road".

2) Breathing and paper rustling in the Gymnopedes...

3) The 2Piano works, when going fff, tend to be a bit aggressive. '3 Pieces in the Form of A Pear' is just a little painful at times.

I just can't really find any interpretive qualms, but I wouldn't want his Gymnopede to be the only one. SO, EXCEPT FOR RESEARCH, I MIGHT RECOMMEND THE WHOLE CYCLE,,, again, Satie seems to want to be collected piecemeal.

Thanks for the feedback. Well, I haven't heard any of Ciccolini's second cycle (unless this was what was in that corrupted Tout Satie! Erato set), but I can certainly get onboard with saying that Ciccolini's first cycle of Satie is the 'bee's knees'. Looking forward to getting the Ogawa recordings as some of her performances I listened to sounded quite delectable via YouTube.

In other Satiean news, I received the documentary DVD Satiesfictions today, so I'm looking forward to watching this tonight (probably after dinner).

aukhawk · April 16, 2018, 01:51:44 AM

Quote from: snyprrr on April 14, 2018, 07:06:38 AM
I admit I've gotten myself into a Satie pickle here... so much has happened since the early 90s...

Sumptuous.

snyprrr · April 16, 2018, 03:24:04 PM

Quote from: aukhawk on April 16, 2018, 01:51:44 AM

Sumptuous.

I'm on Page 37 of over 1000 "Satie" Pages on Amazon. I haaave noticed some ... a lot ... of interesting guitar-Satie discs, including that one and a somewhat famous one on EMI.

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 14, 2018, 10:00:53 AM
Thanks for the feedback. Well, I haven't heard any of Ciccolini's second cycle (unless this was what was in that corrupted Tout Satie! Erato set), but I can certainly get onboard with saying that Ciccolini's first cycle of Satie is the 'bee's knees'. Looking forward to getting the Ogawa recordings as some of her performances I listened to sounded quite delectable via YouTube.

In other Satiean news, I received the documentary DVD Satiesfictions today, so I'm looking forward to watching this tonight (probably after dinner).

Hangin out at the mailbox the last few days... it's all comin down now!! oh, titters!!

First takeaway: Michel Legrand's Erato recital has, imo, incredible piano sound- it sounds like if Aimaird had some bigger balls, with great DG type sound. And his interpretations are fresh as a daisy, masculine, quick AND slow... he pulls the 1st Gymnopede, at 4mins. even, at juuust the right amount, to give that deLeeuw effect, without the 6min. duration. Frankly, Legrand gives the most "dolorous" sounding performance, perfectly tugging just enough for the effect. The other two are more normal. Throughout,Legrand, and the sweeet piano sound, make one crave a whole Cycle. It's so good I can barely quail over the 50min. running time. No matter.

MI- I know you cave sweet piano sound. I'd rank this "around" the Philips/Kocsis ideal, maybe better? (in that Erato way when they hit it)

AND-

JYT "The Magic of Satie" arrived, will be interested to hear a few things, not the least the 'Gnossiene No.7'!! lol

And have pulled trigger on all three Roge discs...

AAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDD

I found a hitherto UNHEARD OF release from a few years back... look up Eve Egoyan/Satie... verrry interesting, will get back...

Mirror Image · April 17, 2018, 06:59:23 PM

Quote from: snyprrr on April 16, 2018, 03:24:04 PMHangin out at the mailbox the last few days... it's all comin down now!! oh, titters!!

First takeaway: Michel Legrand's Erato recital has, imo, incredible piano sound- it sounds like if Aimaird had some bigger balls, with great DG type sound. And his interpretations are fresh as a daisy, masculine, quick AND slow... he pulls the 1st Gymnopede, at 4mins. even, at juuust the right amount, to give that deLeeuw effect, without the 6min. duration. Frankly, Legrand gives the most "dolorous" sounding performance, perfectly tugging just enough for the effect. The other two are more normal. Throughout,Legrand, and the sweeet piano sound, make one crave a whole Cycle. It's so good I can barely quail over the 50min. running time. No matter.

MI- I know you cave sweet piano sound. I'd rank this "around" the Philips/Kocsis ideal, maybe better? (in that Erato way when they hit it)

AND-

JYT "The Magic of Satie" arrived, will be interested to hear a few things, not the least the 'Gnossiene No.7'!! lol

And have pulled trigger on all three Roge discs...

AAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDD

I found a hitherto UNHEARD OF release from a few years back... look up Eve Egoyan/Satie... verrry interesting, will get back...

Cool. Yeah, I read that Legrand was quite good, but, honestly, at this point I'm good with Satie as a little of his music goes a long way IMHO. Not saying it's bad of course, it's just that you generally get the idea of his methods relatively quickly and this isn't a slight against the composer of course as there's always surprises to be had in his music like the 'drama symphonique' Socrate. Do you know this work? It's exquisite. Of course, there's so much of his piano music that I do love, but probably if I was backed into a corner and forced to pick one piano work it would be Trois Nocturnes. This work has a hypnotic effect on me --- almost like I'm entering into some kind of trance or something. I also really dig his mélodies (w/ piano). One thing I do wish he composed more of is chamber music. For some reason, I think he'd create some gorgeous string quartet music and not to mention sonatas for wind and string instruments. He does have that one 'violin sonata'-like work, Choses vues à droite et à gauche (sans lunettes), but it's over before it begins! Also, there's Musique d'ameublement for a chamber ensemble, but this work is over before you know it as well and it's really not meant to be listened to attentively as it's more for 'background' or, at least, that's what the title implies 'furnishing music'. Did Satie create the first elevator music with this particular work? He very well could have.

snyprrr · April 18, 2018, 06:39:42 AM

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 17, 2018, 06:59:23 PM
Cool. Yeah, I read that Legrand was quite good, but, honestly, at this point I'm good with Satie as a little of his music goes a long way IMHO. Not saying it's bad of course, it's just that you generally get the idea of his methods relatively quickly and this isn't a slight against the composer of course as there's always surprises to be had in his music like the 'drama symphonique' Socrate. Do you know this work? It's exquisite. Of course, there's so much of his piano music that I do love, but probably if I was backed into a corner and forced to pick one piano work it would be Trois Nocturnes. This work has a hypnotic effect on me --- almost like I'm entering into some kind of trance or something. I also really dig his mélodies (w/ piano). One thing I do wish he composed more of is chamber music. For some reason, I think he'd create some gorgeous string quartet music and not to mention sonatas for wind and string instruments. He does have that one 'violin sonata'-like work, Choses vues à droite et à gauche (sans lunettes), but it's over before it begins! Also, there's Musique d'ameublement for a chamber ensemble, but this work is over before you know it as well and it's really not meant to be listened to attentively as it's more for 'background' or, at least, that's what the title implies 'furnishing music'. Did Satie create the first elevator music with this particular work? He very well could have.

I hear ya...

I, however, have gotten myself into quite a tizzy here,... I can't believe I'm basically listening to a lot of cafe music,...lol,... I guess the bon bon stuff is fun enough to listen to...eh...

per JYT- I've been listening to his single disc 'The Magic of Satie', with a lot of rare stuff, and, I gotta say, if this is all he had put out, this would maybe be a classic album! I find his MOR Gyms and Gnosses just right for daily consumption. Maybe they just put everything on here where he actually sounds like he's having some fun. And, I'm quite enjoying the piano sound. He actually takes Gnossiene4 slower than deLeeuw, and, here I really liked it- Gnossiene5 also I enjoyed him. But there's still a lot of misfires in the Box itself...

So, for anyone else who's curious- JYT in a small dose... try 'The Magic of Satie'

I still find Roge more enjoyable.... btw, just got his Vol.3 (Sports et Div), and, yea, this album has a LOT of cool rare stuff...

I'M NOT EVEN SURE I'VE EVER EVER PAYED ATTENTION TO GNOSSIENE4 UNTIL YESTERDAY!! My, yes,... wow,... and Gnossiene6, what an enigmatic piece!!

See, I'm STILL discovering Satie, lol

...getting hooked on 'Petite Oeuveurature de danser' ...

pant pant

goin to work...

pant pant

Mirror Image · April 19, 2018, 07:25:31 PM

Quote from: snyprrr on April 18, 2018, 06:39:42 AM
I hear ya...

I, however, have gotten myself into quite a tizzy here,... I can't believe I'm basically listening to a lot of cafe music,...lol,... I guess the bon bon stuff is fun enough to listen to...eh...

per JYT- I've been listening to his single disc 'The Magic of Satie', with a lot of rare stuff, and, I gotta say, if this is all he had put out, this would maybe be a classic album! I find his MOR Gyms and Gnosses just right for daily consumption. Maybe they just put everything on here where he actually sounds like he's having some fun. And, I'm quite enjoying the piano sound. He actually takes Gnossiene4 slower than deLeeuw, and, here I really liked it- Gnossiene5 also I enjoyed him. But there's still a lot of misfires in the Box itself...

So, for anyone else who's curious- JYT in a small dose... try 'The Magic of Satie'

I still find Roge more enjoyable.... btw, just got his Vol.3 (Sports et Div), and, yea, this album has a LOT of cool rare stuff...

I'M NOT EVEN SURE I'VE EVER EVER PAYED ATTENTION TO GNOSSIENE4 UNTIL YESTERDAY!! My, yes,... wow,... and Gnossiene6, what an enigmatic piece!!

See, I'm STILL discovering Satie, lol

...getting hooked on 'Petite Oeuveurature de danser' ...

pant pant

goin to work...

pant pant

Check out Ogawa's Satie. 'Nuff said.

snyprrr · April 20, 2018, 01:53:53 PM

So, here's what SatieMania hath wrought. I'd only really been familiar with the 2nd Ciccolini set, and I'd had the deLeeuw once, which I promptly repurchased. Here they are:

1) deLeeuw (Philips 2CD): not daily listening, but essential

1a)John White (Arte Nova): non-slow "early" works with crystal clear "col legno" sound

1b)Riri Shimada (SONY): "early" works,... both of these are adjuncts to deLeeuw

2) Legrand (Erato): this recital starts with the stylistic break of 'Caresse', thus separating it
from the previous grouping of CDs. This issue has crackerjack Satie playing
in vivid DG/Erato type great sound. This may be my favorite record here

Roge Vols. 1-3 Decca): out of JYT, Queffelec, Ciccolini, and perhaps a few other contenders, I decided
to go with Roge, polite as he can be at times. He just has a feminine charm I
like, and the Decca sound, recessed as it is, has its own charm. The 3rd volume,
however, is a marvel of programming in its own right, hitting a lot of rare stops
along the way.

JYT 'The Magic of Satie (Decca): this single disc survey of JYT's Cycle hits lots of rare stops,
making it somewhat essential for the casual collector. I would
stay away from his set, but this disc is a winner in my book

These three CDs cover the 1899-1912 period quite well. If anything were missing, Ciccolini's 'Etudes' volume could shore up the missing pieces.

3) Ciccolini Vol.3 'Fantasist Works (EMI): this is the most complete album of the works
1912-1915, minus '...Meduse', and '...Pantins...'. Also,
AC isn't to be beat in interpretation. Sound is alright

'Late Works'

I'm having greater trouble finding adequate representatives for the works starting with 'Parade'.

4) Gorisek Vols.7-8 (Audiophile): these two volumes are the most complete for the works after
1917, excluding only the 2Piano version of 'Socrate' (rare
enough as that is). The main draw of V8 is the inclusion of
'Mercure' and 'Relache'. I kind of like Gorisek, though others
are having problems with the... uh... "audiophile" sound. lol,
it's not for daily consumption, but, for 'Complete's' sake, they
fill a need. Sure, I'd like to find replacements...

Egoyan (CBC): Eve Egoyan's recital has crystal clear sound, and she plays incredibly sensitively.
Her disc contains some of the finest recordings of the 6 Nocturnes, anywhere

Schleiermacher Vol.5 (MDG): this album of woefully slow performances contains the 6 Nocturnes,
the 'Pantagruel' reverie, and the Premiere Menuet, the latter played
life what so slow as to rob it of any soever...
SS epitomizes what's wrong with a lot of Satie interpretation, making
one literally shake one's head in disbelief at his willfulness

Ciccolini Vol.1 '1st & Last Works': his 'Pantagruel' is still the best I've heard, as is also his
2:00 Premiere Menuet. The 5 Nocturnes are fine, but one does
crave a better overall sound, good as it is

I am missing a really great 2Piano disc, and a few select pieces (such as 'Musiques intimes et secretes'), and the whole of 'Les fils...', but, generally, I have been able to replace most of Ciccolini, which might have been my point in the first place, though, his 80sCycle might be my final nail in the coffin.

So, there is my 'Complete' Satie,...

snyprrr · April 27, 2018, 06:17:28 AM

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 19, 2018, 07:25:31 PM
Check out Ogawa's Satie. 'Nuff said.

Huh,... I did not like Ogawa at all,... partially it may have been the Erard HIPness... but I wasn'tso keen on her interpreting of Satie either... the 'Enfantins' just had none of the proper charm that Ciccolini effortlessly conjures in those pieces.

I must say I do not like the Erard sound anytime I've heard it recently... Horvath also... the Legrand Steinway sound just explodes me... even the JYT sound is just pure piano dream tone...

I'm thinking deLeeuw played a Steinway LIKE an Erard (not going so heavy on the fortes of the Sarabandes, for instance), which I enjoy (and yes, "slowSatie" is wearing thin with other performers,- I AM giving deLeeuw a pass as being the first, and best, in this category).

I must admit that I'm giving Satie a whole lot more credit right now, and focusing on his 1917-1923 influence, when he was touted as an AvantGardist- which seems odd seeing as his 'Parade' music is still quite "normal"... I know, it's mostly the attitude and the company one keeps...

I don't get 'Socrate' yet...

BUT WHAT ABOUT THAT GORGEOUS EARLY SONG 'ELEGIE'?? WOW!!!! What of the rest of his 'Melodies'? Are they more cafe?

No Satie/Stravinsky connection? Paris? Early 20s? Neo-Classicism?

Just can't get enough of the Nocturnes... WHAT OF THIS NOCTURNE 77777777?

? I LIKE IT!!! Is it spurious?

snyprrr · April 29, 2018, 07:41:42 AM

Well, I've done it. My Complete Satie has now run to 17 discs! And of course I'm still missing some trifles,... but,...

I almost feel embarrassed that I have yet to tire of the Gymnopedes,... and I have barely tread into the deLeeuw set,... so much timelessness to deal with...

The Michel Legrand disc is by far my favourite recital in terms of both sound and performance. Alas, it is but a mere 50mins. Regardless of how fluffy Roge may be at times, I still find him the most femininely charming- as opposed to the more masculine Queffelec.

Anyhow, gotta jump ship... I know, I'm just blabbering,... novocaine wearing off...

snyprrr · May 20, 2018, 03:32:04 PM

LOL, I just rediscovered Gnossienne No.2!! Along with No.6,... and, (what are we to make of an "official"?) 'No.7', they represent some early forays into the bizarre, moreso bizarre than the rest of the Gnossiennes, at least, which mostly leave the intricacies to the melody. Here, we have much harmonic interest, and less so in the purely melodic.

Also, the Nocturne Nos. 5-6,... but, has anyone heard this 'Nocturne No.7'? There's a YT video, and it sounds great, but, of course, I'm wondering if it's real.

Anyone?

Mirror Image · May 21, 2018, 08:25:05 AM

Satie, like Cage, is one of those composers I admire more for their musical philosophies rather than the music itself. Satie did compose some cool works, but I can't really say I've heard any masterpieces from him.