Shostakovich: Cello Concerto No. 1 vs Cello Concerto No. 2

[Mark]

Oh lord - this is her worst recording of major repertoire without a doubt ...

Are you sure? Her Dvorak/Elgar Cello Concerti disc holds that special honour for me. And I say this as a BIG fan of Kliegel.

[Maciek]

I have the Kliegel disc and don't like it very much either. In fact, I don't think I've ever listened to it more than twice and I must have had it for at least 6 years... I have Rostropovich in the 1st, and there's no contest there. As for the 2nd, this is the only recording I have - which may be the reason I've never really warmed to that concerto...

[beclemund]

What about this recording?



I actually don't have the cello concertos at the moment in any form, so Rostropovich seems like a no brainer. What more recent alternatives are there? I did like Kliegel's Dvorak/Elgar pairing on Naxos, so I was leaning towards that set, but with the reservations by some on this thread I thought I would see what else was out there...

[Guido]

I have the Kliegel disc and don't like it very much either. In fact, I don't think I've ever listened to it more than twice and I must have had it for at least 6 years... I have Rostropovich in the 1st, and there's no contest there. As for the 2nd, this is the only recording I have - which may be the reason I've never really warmed to that concerto...

Yes Absolutely. As I say in my Amazon review - you'd be forgiven for thinking it wasn;t a top notch piece after this performance. That Rostropovich double CD jobbie that I recommended on the last page is a friggin steal - superb performances of rarely heard repertoire which is all top notch, with great sound and at a very low price!!

I actually don't have the cello concertos at the moment in any form, so Rostropovich seems like a no brainer. What more recent alternatives are there? I did like Kliegel's Dvorak/Elgar pairing on Naxos, so I was leaning towards that set, but with the reservations by some on this thread I thought I would see what else was out there...

Hmm. Well the Miasky is another OK reading, but it never quite has that vital spark that is needed. Really almost all version are hopelessly outclassed by Rostropovich on many levels - first of all because he was the dedicatee, a friend of the composer, he lived in the time, he played them the most, he gives most of himself, and he is simply the greatest cellist who has recorded them.

[Guido]

Are you sure? Her Dvorak/Elgar Cello Concerti disc holds that special honour for me. And I say this as a BIG fan of Kliegel.

Ah hmm... well I don't know! Tough call, but given that these two pieces are firmly entrenched warhorses of the cello literature, the damage she can do is limited. With the second concerto, this is in a lot of cases the only time they'll hear it, and I have heard two educated musicians dismiss the piece on the basis of this recording (luckily I put them onto the Rostropovich, which soon put them right!)

[Guido]

oh well, different folks, different strokes... I personally really enjoy the Kliegel disc, its really good...

Yeah I s'pose!

[not edward]

and i would highly recommend it to anyone who wants to hear those pieces, because i gotta say, its really really good....

How do you find it compares to Rostropovich?

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Only Rostropovich for these, of course!

Only?

Personally, I couldn't be happier a whole generation of cellists - after Rostropovich - decided to take up these works!

They really deserve to be living musical entities...not holed up as museum pieces.

[Maciek]

Well, she's also done a Schnittke disc on Naxos and I dislike that one too, so maybe it's just that we two don't go well together...

[not edward]

Well, she's also done a Schnittke disc on Naxos and I dislike that one too, so maybe it's just that we two don't go well together...

IMO, Ivashkin and Gutman are greatly to be preferred in the concerto and sonata on that disc: more accurate performances and far more intense.

[Sergeant Rock]

What more recent alternatives are there? I did like Kliegel's Dvorak/Elgar pairing on Naxos, so I was leaning towards that set, but with the reservations by some on this thread I thought I would see what else was out there...

This one:



It's far better than Kliegel (although my main beef isn't with her but with the orchestra and Wit's pedestrian accompaniment). If y'all won't listen to Guido maybe Gramophone will convince you:

The Second Concerto (the greater of the two, in my view) is rather more elusive and although Kliegel seems to connect with the work's schizoid spirit, Wit's direction is less strongly characterized than it might have been. The brass fanfares that greet the second Allegretto are hardly disquieting and the overall impression is of well-oiled routine. Which begs the question: does Naxos's modest price-point compensate for a lack of interpretative distinction, or would one be better advised to save up for the more comprehensively illuminating (full-price) digital accounts of Schiff and Maisky?


The Philips disc is mid-price now, not much more than the Naxox and, I think, clearly superior in every way.

But really, everyone needs Rostropovich too.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

IMO, Ivashkin and Gutman are greatly to be preferred in the concerto and sonata on that disc: more accurate performances and far more intense.

Seconded.

Sarge

[Guido]

If y'all won't listen to Guido maybe Gramophone will convince you:

The Second Concerto (the greater of the two, in my view) is rather more elusive...

This makes me happy. And I also agree about the Schnittke. Ivashkin is another odd one. His recordings go from absolutely superb and revelatory, to really quite shoddy and amateurish. Makes you wonder.

[not edward]

This makes me happy. And I also agree about the Schnittke. Ivashkin is another odd one. His recordings go from absolutely superb and revelatory, to really quite shoddy and amateurish. Makes you wonder.

Which were you thinking of in the shoddy and amateurish range? I think his Prokofiev concertino manages to be a mixture of the superb and the shoddy (largely because of his catastrophically bad cadenza choice).

[E d o]

The BBC's CD Review did a shoot out a while back and Gutman was the winner. I can't remember if it was No.1 or 2 though.

[Sergeant Rock]

What Grammophone says? Pfff....um no...i think too many people here worry too much about what they read is good, or what the critics say is good....the Kliegel recording is very good and isnt lacking in any way. Its a wonderful choice.

I don't worry about what I read and my favorite recordings are often at extreme odds with the critics (and with people on this forum). I like what I like regardless of the critical consensus and if you've paid any attention to my posts over the last year and a half (no reason why you should have), you'd know I'm a critic of the British press, particularly Gramophone. But, when I do read a critic whose opinion mirrors mine, I'll point it out just so others will know that I'm not entirely crazy and at least one other person agrees with me

I'm happy you like Kliegel...but honestly, I have no idea why you'd prefer her Shostakovich to Rostropovich or Schiff or Ma. I really don't. I also don't understand why you'd prefer Wit's rather blah interpretations and the routine orchestral execution. It makes me wonder if you've actually heard her competition.

Sarge

[Guido]

I'm happy you like Kliegel...but honestly, I have no idea why you'd prefer her Shostakovich to Rostropovich or Schiff or Ma. I really don't. I also don't understand why you'd prefer Wit's rather blah interpretations and the routine orchestral execution. It makes me wonder if you've actually heard her competition.

My sentiments exactly.

In the amazing range I put Prokofiev's cello concerto op.58 (the original before the extreme modification that would lead to the Symphony concerto op.125). Also the Tcherepnin cello sonatas. In the shoddy range - his recording of Shostakovich's reorchestration of the Schumann - the playing borders on the bizarre, especially vibrato use and phrasing. Also his Tischenko concerto ain't so hot - odd bulges on every long note...

I can't remember his playing of the Prokofiev concertino, but I will listen again at some point in the future.

[not edward]

In the amazing range I put Prokofiev's cello concerto op.58 (the original before the extreme modification that would lead to the Symphony concerto op.125).

I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks this is a wonderful performance.

I also think his Schnittke cello sonatas are exceptional--the first concerto is good but not on the same level (I've not heard him in the second, as I don't really like the piece despite Rostropovich's advocacy of it).

[Guido]

Did Rostropovich actually ever play the Schnittke first concerto? The second concerto he premiered of course, and I actually prefer it as a piece. That final movement is just astounding. I'm also not drastically keen on the Mahlerian poses of the first, but I can see why people like it. The second concerto is quite possibly the most difficult cello concerto ever written, though I just got the score of the wonderful Gruber concerto today, and it must surely give it a run for its money. There is not a single 'easy' bar in the Gruber (apart from the rests!).

I am very fond of the Prokofiev op.58 - alot of very nice touches are lost in the revision, even if the revision when taken as a whole is undoubtedly the better piece. I recently got the score to the concerto and its also terribly difficult.

[not edward]

I'm pretty sure Rostropovich didn't ever play the first concerto: for me, Gutman's the gold standard in it.

I do very much like the finale of the second concerto: I just find the first four movements rather uninteresting.

Agreed totally about the merits of the Prokofiev concerto. Is there a recording of the Gruber available?