Close, but incomplete Beethoven Sonatas

[Que]

It's the first that I have read about either of these things. That's disturbing to hear that Concert Artists did that.

Remember the scandal involving the late Joyce Hatto and her husband William Barrington-Coupe, owner of Concert Artists?

Q

[Bogey]

Remember the scandal involving the late Joyce Hatto and her husband William Barrington-Coupe, owner of Concert Artists?

Q

Top news on the old forum if I remember correctly.  And if I recall, her used cds sky rocketed!   For a time, that is.

[George]

Remember the scandal involving the late Joyce Hatto and her husband William Barrington-Coupe, owner of Concert Artists?

Q

Oh yes, that was also disturbing. I saw a Hatto CD in a used shop yesterday, forget which one.

[jlaurson]

A question for the experts: what do we know about Fiorentino and recorded Beethoven sonatas.

I think Concert Artists published a complete cycle by him, but that has shown to be partly a fake, I think. But was he engaged in recording a complete cycle and just never finished it?

Complete or incomplete... I think the latter... but likely fake, all the same:

Discography, with appropriate warnings:
http://www.geocities.com/elumpe1/SFDiscography.html#BEETHOVEN

Reviews (oblivious) of one of those sets:
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classRev/2003/Mar03/Beethoven_PianoSonatas2.htm

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Mar03/Beethoven_PianoSonatas4.htm

[Mandryka]

Oh yes, that was also disturbing. I saw a Hatto CD in a used shop yesterday, forget which one.

I would buy it -- they are all very good. They chose some outstanding and little known performances to pass off as their own!

[jlaurson]

I would buy it -- they are all very good. They chose some outstanding and little known performances to pass off as their own!

Seems more fair to buy the actual artist who recorded it and thus not cheating him, her, or their company out of the revenue they deserve and that Concert Artists did not.

P.S. Purchasing pirated works used merely removes the buyer one step further from the source (that should have received the compensation for their work), but despite now being rather indirect in its effect, it doesn't really make it right. Sorry to sound a little pedantic about this... but the desire for supporting artists and perhaps even the industry that brings them to us is something I assume we all share, so I don't feel to churlish making that point.

[Brian]

Seems more fair to buy the actual artist who recorded it and thus not cheating him, her, or their company out of the revenue they deserve and that Concert Artists did not.

It was in a used shop.

[Jo498]

Gelber recorded 6 discs in the late '80ties/early 90ties? for Denon in excellent sound, but for some reason the project was never finished. He had recorded a bunch of sonatas earlier (60ties/70ties) for EMI, but I don't know exactly which ones.
For Denon 19 sonatas were recorded, if I am not mistaken (I lack one volume and they were issued in different combinations later on).
op. 2, 1+3
op. 10, 1-3
op.13
op.27,1+2
op.28
op.31, 2+3
op.49, 2
op.53
op.57
op.79
op.81a
op.90
op.101
op.111

I like them quite a bit, but some of the volumes are quite expensive.
Of the "almost complete" sets I think the DG Gilels is the one to get.

[Bogey]

Gelber recorded 6 discs in the late '80ties/early 90ties? for Denon in excellent sound,

I bet!

[George]

Richter recorded 22 of the 32 (just like Hungerford). Missing are #s 2, 5, 13, 14, 15, 16, 21, 24, 25 and 26.

Maybe Melodiya will release a Beethoven set similar to the Schubert one they did recently for Richter. That would be cool.

[Todd]

Maybe Melodiya will release a Beethoven set similar to the Schubert one they did recently for Richter. That would be cool.

There's this set, which has 19 sonatas, plus bagatelles, Op 35, the Third PC and the Choral Fantasia.

[George]

There's this set, which has 19 sonatas, plus bagatelles, Op 35, the Third PC and the Choral Fantasia.

Thanks!

Anyone know anything about the label Venezia?

[Todd]

Don't know anything about the label, but the set appears meant for Russian language markets only, since all but a few disclaimers are in Russian only.  Sound is what I expected, and the box and sleeves are robust enough.

[George]

Some discussion here.

More info (I wonder if I have any of this already on Melodiya or Brilliant Classics):

Disc1
Beethoven:
· Op.2-1 Piano Sonata No. 1 in F minor
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, October 10,
1976

· Op.2-3 Piano Sonata No. 3 in C major
Recorded live at Leningrad June 1960

· Op.7 No. 4 in E flat major Piano Sonata
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, January 12,
1975

Disc2
Piano Sonata No. 6 in F major, op.10-2
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, December 20,
1980

· Op.10-3 Piano Sonata No. 7 in D major
Recorded live at Leningrad June 1960

· "Pathetique" op.13 Piano Sonata No. 8 in C minor
Recording studio in Moscow, June 04, 1959

Disc3
· Op.14-1 Piano Sonata No. 9 in E major
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, June 05, 1947

No. 10 in G major, op.14-2 - Piano Sonatas
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, November 29,
1962

· A flat major op.26 Piano Sonata No. 12 funny
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, 1961

Disc4
· Op.31-2 "Tempest" Piano Sonata No. 17 in D minor
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, October 10,
1965

· Op.31-3 in E flat major Piano Sonata No. 18
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory recorded
October 10, 1965

· No. 19 in G minor, op.49-1 Piano Sonata
Recorded live at Leningrad January 1965

Disc5
· Op.54 Piano Sonata No. 22 in F major
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, January 17,
1951

- "Passion" op.57 Piano Sonata No. 23 in F minor
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, June 09, 1960

· Op.90 Piano Sonata No. 27 in E minor
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, January 10,
1965

Disc6
No. 28 - Piano Sonata in A major op.101
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, October 10,
1965

· Op.110 Piano Sonata No. 30 in E flat major
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, January 22,
1972

· A major op.110 Piano Sonata No. 31 funny
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, October 10,
1965

Disc7
· Op.111 Piano Sonata No. 32 in C minor
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, January 12,
1975

Gallery and Bagatelles (8 songs)
In F major, op.33-3
C major op.33-5
C major op.119-2
C major op.119-7
A minor op.119-9
G major op.126-1
B minor op.126-4
In E flat major, op.126-6
Recording studios in Moscow on July 6, 1959

· Op.35 in E flat major Eroica Variations
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, January 17,
1951

Disc8
· Op.37 Piano Concerto No. 3 in C minor
Ah vent conductor Hermann Roth, National Symphony Orchestra of the
USSR
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, October 25,
1954

Choral Fantasy in C minor · op.80
Conductor Kurt Sanderling, Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra
Recording studios in Moscow February 23, 1952

[George]

Don't know anything about the label, but the set appears meant for Russian language markets only, since all but a few disclaimers are in Russian only.  Sound is what I expected, and the box and sleeves are robust enough.

Thanks again. Is the sound as good (or better) than the Richter Beethoven set on Brilliant Classics? I have read elsewhere that Venezia uses master tapes for their releases.

[Todd]

I wonder if I have any of this already on Melodiya or Brilliant Classics

Almost certainly.  I had a Denon disc of three sonatas, and all three are in this set.  This appears to be a repackaging of oft-reissued recordings.  Sound is the same as for the Denon, but I can't say if it is better or worse than other reissues, though I suspect any differences would be slight.

[George]

Almost certainly.  I had a Denon disc of three sonatas, and all three are in this set.  This appears to be a repackaging of oft-reissued recordings.  Sound is the same as for the Denon, but I can't say if it is better or worse than other reissues, though I suspect any differences would be slight.

Thanks again, I have the Denon disc you mentioned, so I will check it again later to remind myself of the sound quality.

[Oldnslow]

Well, one current pianist I like a lot is Igor Tchetuev's cycle on Caro Mitis. He has completed six volumes, but nothing in a couple of years, and I am not sure Caro Mitis as a label  continues to be active. Hopefully Tchetuev will not be relegated to the unfinished cycle bin....

[Jo498]

It's a bit surprising that a pianist like Serkin who was so strongly associated with the Austro-German repertoire apparently had less than half of the sonatas in his longterm repertoire, and when there were plans to make a complete recording for the anniversary 1970 he couldn't (or didn't want to) learn the remainder fast enough. Apparently, his core was basically the "named" sonatas opp.13, 27/2, 53, 57, 81a and op.78 and the late sonatas.

A bit strange for me is also that the sonatas Serkin did record in 1970 (apparently in the course of this abandoned project) are mostly not among the more frequently played pieces, e.g. the least popular of op.10 (2) and op.31(1), op.22 or op.27/1. I wonder if this was him going by some schedule originally planned for a complete recording or by preference. Admittedly, I find these interpretations not particularly noteworthy for the most part, i.e. they are not going to make these sonatas into favorites or become favorite recordings them.
It's a pity that Serkin didn't get around to record sonatas like op.10,1+3, op.31/2, op.90 where I could imagine him being more interesting than in some of the ones just mentioned.

[staxomega]

It's a bit surprising that a pianist like Serkin who was so strongly associated with the Austro-German repertoire apparently had less than half of the sonatas in his longterm repertoire, and when there were plans to make a complete recording for the anniversary 1970 he couldn't (or didn't want to) learn the remainder fast enough. Apparently, his core was basically the "named" sonatas opp.13, 27/2, 53, 57, 81a and op.78 and the late sonatas.

A bit strange for me is also that the sonatas Serkin did record in 1970 (apparently in the course of this abandoned project) are mostly not among the more frequently played pieces, e.g. the least popular of op.10 (2) and op.31(1), op.22 or op.27/1. I wonder if this was him going by some schedule originally planned for a complete recording or by preference. Admittedly, I find these interpretations not particularly noteworthy for the most part, i.e. they are not going to make these sonatas into favorites or become favorite recordings them.
It's a pity that Serkin didn't get around to record sonatas like op.10,1+3, op.31/2, op.90 where I could imagine him being more interesting than in some of the ones just mentioned.

According to his biography he'd practice things for hours, and still didn't feel like he was very secure when it came to recording pieces. I think he set that bar very high for when he felt capable of recording something. My general feeling was there was a sort of lifelong imposter syndrome. I don't think it mentioned why he recorded some of the early sonatas over others. I wish his repertoire was more diverse.