Topic: The death of classical music

[greg]

よよよ! 

[Steve]

My own, pretty much. People have reason for not getting into stuff like classical music, maybe sometimes because they're just lazy, but it is true that if I stopped listening to it I would do no worse now than before- the only things I would lose are music that I enjoy and going on this forum.

Then I am in complete disagreement. Only useful for Jeoprady? Reading great literature enriches the my everyday experiences, and allows me to evaluate my daily condition with a far more acute sensibility then I ever could. It is about reaching into the depths of time, and extracting the greatest ideas that our society has ever produced. The same could be said of the music of the classical tradition. Surely, my enjoyment of great music is not limited to the occasional reference in a New York Times Crossword Puzzle.

[Larry Rinkel]

Then I am in complete disagreement. Only useful for Jeoprady? Reading great literature enriches the my everyday experiences, and allows me to evaluate my daily condition with a far more acute sensibility then I ever could. It is about reaching into the depths of time, and extracting the greatest ideas that our society has ever produced. The same could be said of the music of the classical tradition. Surely, my enjoyment of great music is not limited to the occasional reference in a New York Times Crossword Puzzle.

Ironically, whenever Classical Music or Opera shows up as a category on Jeopardy, contestants often try to avoid it, or do badly with the questions. I of course agree with your other points, and I suspect Greg really does too, though he may not have been able to articulate it as well.

[mahlertitan]

if i like opera, i must be like a arch villain in a gangster movie.

[karlhenning]

if i like opera, i must be like a arch villain in a gangster movie.

Or Cher's love interest in Moonstruck.

[jochanaan]

...I had the benefit of attending a school who's cirriculum still emphasized classical literature and cluture...

And grammar and spelling? (I'm teasing, of course; we all make mistakes of this sort.  I've been guilty of a few bloopers. )

[Steve]

And grammar and spelling? (I'm teasing, of course; we all make mistakes of this sort.  I've been guilty of a few bloopers. )

 

[Mozart]

I couldn't care less whether other (notice I didn't use the word normal) people listen to it or not. I do care that the arts are gradually being devalued in today's society. Why are so many people missing the point?

Perfect, there is a point! A tiny space of immense light and revelation that we have all stumbled across at some part of our lives that have made us music fans. "Other" people just don't care to look in the right direction.
Funny of me I used to think classical music was universal, that everyone could enjoy if they only heard Beethoven's 7th symphony. But its not! I got to witness the classical music audience at the opera and the concerts I have gone to and always wonder, how many of these people get it? Why are 4/5 of these people here? For status? To be social? Its just not for everyone, not even for many. It needs to be understood and some are not capable of that understanding.

[Florestan]

Funny of me I used to think classical music was universal, that everyone could enjoy if they only heard Beethoven's 7th symphony. But its not! I got to witness the classical music audience at the opera and the concerts I have gone to and always wonder, how many of these people get it? Why are 4/5 of these people here? For status? To be social? Its just not for everyone, not even for many. It needs to be understood and some are not capable of that understanding.

It is precisely this kind of crap that contributes the most to keep people away from classical music.

[Mozart]

It is precisely this kind of crap that contributes the most to keep people away from classical music.

Exactly, their inability to comprehend the art form.

[greg]

yeah, that's retarded going to concerts for social reasons. But if it sells tickets.....

[Mozart]

yeah, that's retarded going to concerts for social reasons. But if it sells tickets.....

During the magic flute, out of all operas, a woman got scolded for chatting with her daughter during the recitatives. "Its hard to follow whats going on with your chattering" Stupid people. I think they just like to clap. How irritating is it when you got see Carmen and they clap before the overture is done? Why do they clap? Well everyone else is doing it, I don't want to look like an idiot so Ill do it too! What was so wrong about chatting during the spoken parts? In fact, its a perfect time to discuss what they just heard!

[karlhenning]

Well, I've gone to concerts (at least partly) for social reasons . . . .

[PSmith08]

During the magic flute, out of all operas, a woman got scolded for chatting with her daughter during the recitatives. "Its hard to follow whats going on with your chattering" Stupid people. I think they just like to clap. How irritating is it when you got see Carmen and they clap before the overture is done? Why do they clap? Well everyone else is doing it, I don't want to look like an idiot so Ill do it too! What was so wrong about chatting during the spoken parts? In fact, its a perfect time to discuss what they just heard!

To clap or not to clap, that is the question. Of course, it's only a function of "modern" (ish) expectations of concert hall etiquette. Most composers of a certain time expected their works to be interrupted with applause, cheers, and calls for repetition. They might not have liked it, but it happened. Stravinsky had a riot over Sacre, and we complain about chatter?

I generally don't think classical is dead, but entombing it early will go far to killing it off. People can't understand? They're rebuked in no uncertain terms when they commit a faux-pas, which hasn't been a faux-pas very long in the grand scheme of things. They're told that if they find it difficult, that's their fault. Why would they want to understand? It's not dead, but one must find a balance between turning into a diversion for the cultural élite and abusing the works with making them "accessible." More to the point, I am not sure that the élite in question has had the title for thirty or forty years now, so there's another veneer of relevancy with which to grapple.

[Novi]

Exactly, their inability to comprehend the art form.

That seems rather arrogant. What do you mean by 'comprehend'? To understand a piece of work technically brings a lot to one's listening, but just to enjoy the music is also a legitimate and welcome experience.

yeah, that's retarded going to concerts for social reasons. But if it sells tickets.....

For the most part, I don't think many go to concerts purely for social reasons, at least not in my part of the world . I think our concertgoers do have a genuine interest in the music and do enjoy themselves, even if part of the fun of the evening is meeting up with their cronies. Me? I go alone because none of my friends are particularly keen, but I love the feeling of communality you get after a great performance when you realise you've shared a tremendous musical experience with everyone else in the room.

[lisa needs braces]

Classical music is dead (or nearly so) because of the dearth of popular, living composers. There is no popular element in what modern composers produce, and they have virtually no desire to please popular sentiment. Indeed, these are qualifications necessary for them to ever be considered "serious" in the first place. Ultimately the problem lies with the artistic deadend the genre has reached and with the composers. The neglect is fully earned.

 

[Mark]

Might one argue that classical music is alive and well ... in the form of film scores?

[lisa needs braces]

Might one argue that classical music is alive and well ... in the form of film scores?

Movies = popular, music accompanying them will be too for the most part.

Here's the fundemental problem: The fact that the genre we know as classical music is entirely sustained by past masterpieces. Until living composers--through their music--inspire the classical audiences to place the same faith in the modern output as they do in the classics--we will always be lamenting the Death of Classical Music.

[gomro]

Movies = popular, music accompanying them will be too for the most part.

Here's the fundemental problem: The fact that the genre we know as classical music is entirely sustained by past masterpieces. Until living composers--through their music--inspire the classical audiences to place the same faith in the modern output as they do in the classics--we will always be lamenting the Death of Classical Music.

There's a hideous Catch-22, because the modern music has to be played before the classical audiences can place their faith in it.  But no reasonable conductor will risk playing modern music unless they're sure they'll get the paying crowd -- so there you go.  One of our local music critics took Grant Cooper, the conductor of the WVa Symphony, to task for not being daring enough; Cooper's reply is worth quoting, if I could just FIND it somewhere to quote. Ah, here it is:

http://wvgazette.com/section/Opinion/200705158

Hard to believe that Cooper considers Shostakovich and Mahler to be risky programming, even among a classical music audience, but having lived around here for, oh, half a century, I can completely understand why he thinks that way.

[stingo]

Might one argue that classical music is alive and well ... in the form of film scores?

In a sense, yes, but I think in a much deeper sense, no... The reason being is that the film scores are meant to support the action/visuals on screen, so in that sense (in my view) it's a little more limited out of the starting gate. One could say this is true of opera too, but I'd venture a guess that most operas start with the music, and the visuals come later, not vice versa as it does for most films.