V W Y - Violin Concertos Good or Great or Both?

[Cato]

V = Vieuxtemps

W = Wieniawski

Y = Ysaye

Any opinions on the Violin Concertos (Concerti, for the purists) by these 3 ?  Are the works mainly "showpieces" for the soloist with little depth?

Or are they unjustly viewed as such, and are sniffed at because the composers were also virtuosi?  Are there works which can and should be considered "Great" if heard without that latter prejudice?   

Or do some of their works deserve a mixed response: some are good, a few great?

Decades ago I heard a few snippets of their works.  Since then, I have had a compulsion - successfully resisted for all these years - that I should listen to all of their concertos (concerti), because at least one "Great" work lurks among them!   

[Opus106]

I have heard the last three numbered ones by Vieuxtemps which are available on this CD. I bought it at time when I was very much into Romantic VCi. They are nice, containing some 'fireworks' for which they are obviously famous, especially No. 5, but I don't listen to them all that often. They are, in my (listening) list, only second-tier show-pieces. So, to answer your question, they are good.

[DFO]

IMHO, Vieuxtemps's 4th and 5th (in that order) are very good concerts. All the rest are nice pieces, but nothing else. Wieiniawski's
1st.and 2th. (in that order) are great violin works (with emphasis in "violin"). If you don't like much the violin sound, they aren't for you.
About Ysaye, as far as I know only his 8th.v.c.has been published and recorded. To me it's a very good piece.

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, I tend to agree with DFO here. If you are one of those people (like me) who prefers violin music above all else, then you really should give these (at least some of them) a listen. Of the 3, Vieuxtemps is the best composer. I really don't know who was the best fiddler, doesn't matter. Anyway, Vieuxtemps 4 & 5 should be listened to. Wienawski is not so highly thought of, but I have the DG disk by Gil Shaham of 1 & 2 and I quite enjoy it. It is not memorable music, but it is no shame on you to try it (it's only 1 disk) and I think you would like it, if you accept it for what it is. These guys weren't trying to create "great Art", they were doing a good job of entertaining you for an evening.

I haven't heard any Ysaye, so I can't make a pass at him.

[DFO]

Gurn: try to find Ysaye's by Albrecht Breuninger on CD. Don't know label (I've a copy). It has the v.c.and 5 other very fine short pieces  for v.and o. That guy is a great technitian, and he need all to play those very difficult and rather dark works.

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn: try to find Ysaye's by Albrecht Breuninger on CD. Don't know label (I've a copy). It has the v.c.and 5 other very fine short pieces  for v.and o. That guy is a great technitian, and he need all to play those very difficult and rather dark works.

Thanks, I'll have a look 'round. I've always wanted to get into some Ysaye (beyond the solo sonatas) but there are always pressing priorities...

[Scarpia]

The Vieuxtemps 5 is not a showpiece, per se, I've just become acquainted with it and it is a very nicely written rhapsody for violin and orchestra which exploits the lyrical possibilities of the violin as much as "pyrotechnics."  This recording is very good.

[Cato]

Many thanks to all for the comments so far!

I have found a review of a fairly new CPO CD with one of the Ysaye concertos (maybe the 8th, mentioned earlier?)

Fanfare Archive, Robert Maxham, May/June 2009

See: http://www.amazon.com/Eugène-Ysaÿe-Works-Violin-Orchestra/dp/B000EQHRX8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1244651307&sr=1-4

"The Violin Concerto, in the reconstruction with accompaniment by strings from 1975 by Ysaÿe's grandson, Jacques (Antoine's son?), occupies nearly 25 minutes with its three-movement structure. The first movement begins with solemn ensemble declamation, the violin replying and descanting rather than dominating. Fragmentary figuration that could have come from the Sonata for Two Violins weaves seamlessly in and out of the similarly desultory harmonic and melodic texture. Despite Ysaÿe's study with two composers of the most flamboyant virtuoso concertos of the preceding period, this Concerto bears little relationship to them. The second movement provides a brief (c. two minutes) bridge to the final one, which occupies about half the Concerto's length, but engages in more frequent periods of reflection, despite the burst of virtuoso energy at the very end, than such a concluding movement--at least of that period--usually allowed. Ysaÿe's Concerto emerges, then, more as a highly individual concatenation of tone poems than as a traditional virtuoso vehicle. "

[DFO]

Yes, that's the one I've.

[Brian]

I didn't know Wieniawski was held in such low esteem here! I consider his Second Concerto to be on the same level as the Bruch First and the other "big fish" of the romantic era. Maybe it's that my introduction to the piece was courtesy of Heifetz, but while I like Vieuxtemps a great deal and find the Wieniawski First Concerto listenable, the Second one is a cut above. In my opinion it oughta be a repertoire work up there with Bruch, Tchaikovsky, and Dvorak (actually, on reflection, it is probably superior to Bruch) ... I have the Gil Shaham CD with this piece and Sarasate's "Zigeunerweisen" and it's terrific.

[jhar26]

I have a Heifetz recording of Vieuxtemps' fifth concerto. Not a 'must have' but worth a listen. Not a masterpiece, but definitely entertaining music.