Where to go next?

[Daedalus]

Hello all,

I would like to hear your opinions regarding where I should go next on my classical music adventure.

My listening during the last year has been largely undirected and random. I've just been picking up pieces here and there, listening to lots of different music, from Mozart, Beethoven, Mahler, Sibelius, Debussy, Stravinsky, Schoenberg and Shostakovich. As this list suggests, I am still very much at the beginning of my classical music adventure.

While I have enjoyed jumping between composers and genres, as well as catching up with the more 'mainstream' and famous works that were missing from my listening CV, I have missed having a direction or pattern to my musical journey.

A couple of years ago, I thoroughly enjoyed working my way through the Mahler symphonies, giving each one many repeated listens until I was ready to 'move on' to the next. I read Mahler biographies and letters alongside his music as well as non-technical, abstract writing about his music. This kind of 'study' (I use inverted commas because I was studying on a purely aesthetic, abstract and historical/biographical level as opposed to musical study) was extremely rewarding. I felt as though I came to know (or perhaps apprehend is a more suitable word) a little something about Mahler the man and Mahler the artist while journeying through his symphonies. I also found myself enjoying reading about the history and the wider cultural context.

What I am trying to say (yes, this rambling post does have a point  ) is that I very much enjoyed becoming absorbed in one composer's works like this and I am looking for a similar experience in my listening again. I haven't done this with any composer other than Mahler. So the question, then, is where to go next? I was hoping for more enlightened and knowledgeable people to make some recommendations.  

The period of history which particularly excites me is the period around the fin de siècle and the early 20th Century. I am fascinated by the kinds of questions that were being asked both intellectually and artistically during this period (the kind of adumbration of modernism to come), especially in literature which is my main passion in life. Unfortunately, I am not as knowledgeable in music as I am in literature, so I hope that some of you will be able to make some interesting recommendations about where to go next.

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers my cry for help,
D.

P.S. Forgot to add that any recommendations of pieces to start with and reading to go alongside the listening would also be welcomed.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

The question, then, is where to go next.

Prokofiev.

There's a wealth of material to be had in a myriad of styles.

Start with his piano concertos. Prokofiev was a virtuoso pianist and he had an especially keen ear when writing for the keyboard.

Then his piano sonatas; Romeo and Juliet (plus a slew of other ballets); his operas (Love For Three Oranges to start); violin concertos; then perhaps his symphonies which don't quite grab me as much as other works of his but are still good.   

[bhodges]

The period of history which particularly excites me is the period around the fin de siècle and the early 20th Century. I am fascinated by the kinds of questions that were being asked both intellectually and artistically during this period (the kind of adumbration of modernism to come), especially in literature which is my main passion in life.

Picking up your first sentence, perhaps you might try Richard Strauss.  What brought it to mind is Alex Ross's book, The Rest is Noise: Listening to the Twentieth Century, and in it he begins with Strauss's Salome, as a defining moment.  (PS, I can't recommend the book highly enough.)  For recordings, there are many fine ones: the Sinopoli recording with Cheryl Studer and Bryn Terfel is very popular; I like Michael Schønwandt with Inge Nielsen.  There are some on DVD if you want to watch the opera: the one with Karl Böhm starring Teresa Stratas is excellent.

Other Strauss items to explore: Elektra, the Four Last Songs, his orchestral tone poems. 

--Bruce

[mikkeljs]

Try this: go and listen to something you really don´t feel like at the moment...in order to get unexpected inpulses and opening up your view radically. Of cause this can be difficult, if you don´t know the composer or style of music already. You could go to the music library and pick up random cd´s from orchestra, solo, ensemble etc. and you can zap through them all, when you get home. Or just zap around on youtube. There is a lot of great stuff there, I have learned so much from that!

[Joe Barron]

You will love Carl Nielsen. Listen to his third, fourth and fifth symphonies, which are from the early 20th century (1911-1922). Then branch out to the rest. He engaged in the kinds of questioning you have in mind.

No one has mentioned Debussy yet, but he, too, questioned everything that came before.

[marvinbrown]

  Since you love Mahler so much I just couldn't resist:

  HINT: "There was only Beethoven and Wagner  " - Gustav Mahler

  Hey these were Mahler's words NOT mine!

 
  marvin

[jochanaan]

...What I am trying to say (yes, this rambling post does have a point  ) is that I very much enjoyed becoming absorbed in one composer's works like this and I am looking for a similar experience in my listening again. I haven't done this with any composer other than Mahler. So the question, then, is where to go next?...

Bruckner.  Ravel.  Schoenberg.  Stravinsky.  Shostakovich.  Any one of those are multifaceted enough to reward intense study.

For Bruckner, just about anything would do for an opener, but perhaps the Fourth and Seventh Symphonies are the most accessible.  Save the Fifth till you're hooked on him; it's definitely "advanced listening."

Ravel's personal life is an enigma, but everything he wrote is at least interesting, and quite a few of them are among the greatest masterworks we have: La Valse, Le Tombeau de Couperin, the orchestration of Pictures at an Exhibition, the two piano concertos, even Ma mère l'Oye and Bolero in their way.

Schoenberg's music, as you may realize already, is both as radical as music comes and the next logical step beyond Wagner and Mahler.  Gurrelieder, the Five Orchestral Pieces, the Variations for Orchestra, and Pierrot Lunaire are among his defining compositions.

Stravinsky was not only a great composer, but one of music's most interesting characters.  Start with the early ballets through The Rite of Spring, then try some later pieces like the Dumbarton Oaks Concerto or the Symphony of Psalms.

And Shostakovich's life and work both repay deep study.  (Be warned against the book "Testimony," though; it's been  pretty thoroughly debunked.)  His symphonies cover every stage of his musical development and are each a fascinating musical document.

[stingo]

Zemlinsky comes to mind here.

[vandermolen]

You will love Carl Nielsen. Listen to his third, fourth and fifth symphonies, which are from the early 20th century (1911-1922). Then branch out to the rest. He engaged in the kinds of questioning you have in mind.

No one has mentioned Debussy yet, but he, too, questioned everything that came before.

My gut reaction was Nielsen too, especially symphonies 4-6. Also Vaughan Williams symphonies 4-6.

[Daedalus]

Thank you for all of your replies so far guys. They have all been excellent.

I'll be printing all of these posts out at some point and heading to my library later in the week to reserve some CDs and books.

D.

[Grazioso]

I'll second Alex Ross's The Rest is Noise, both as a great read and a useful starting point for exploring fin de siècle and early modernist works.

Another fun way to explore classical music, instead of by composer or period, is by genre. I've been exploring the symphony in particular for the last couple years and feel I've only scratched the surface. I've been re-acquainted with old favorites and exposed to many composers new to me.

A useful book, btw, is Michael Steinberg's The Symphony: A Listener's Guide, which offers the mix of biographical info and intelligent layman's musical criticism you discuss.

[ChamberNut]

Also Vaughan Williams symphonies 4-6.

Great suggestion!    # 6 immediately connected with me, and is still my favorite RVW symphony.

[Daedalus]

Thanks again to everyone who has taken the time to make some suggestions.

As quite a few of you mentioned Nielsen and Vaughan Williams, I have actually gone ahead and ordered some symphonies after conducting some research around the Internet and in my books.

Just want to reply to a few of you individually.

Another fun way to explore classical music, instead of by composer or period, is by genre. I've been exploring the symphony in particular for the last couple years and feel I've only scratched the surface. I've been re-acquainted with old favorites and exposed to many composers new to me.

This is definitely an interesting way of directing your listening.

Part of the problem I have been having is that my listening has been so random, and I have jumped about so much, that there is no method to my madness and I don't have a direction to keep me motivated and so my listening tends to tail off a little bit. I find I end up putting on the same things and not 'moving on'. I hope that makes sense.

So my question is how did you direct your listening around the symphony genre? What was the method in your approach? Would be interested to know.

Bruckner.  Ravel.  Schoenberg.  Stravinsky.  Shostakovich.  Any one of those are multifaceted enough to reward intense study.

Great post jochanaan. I already have a lot of Stravinsky and Shostakovich in my collection, although I have only just touched the surface with each. Your other suggestions have been noted and will be going on my list.  

 Since you love Mahler so much I just couldn't resist:

 HINT: "There was only Beethoven and Wagner  " - Gustav Mahler

 Hey these were Mahler's words NOT mine!

 
 marvin

marvin - I have often thought of exploring Wagner but I'm afraid to say that I just don't know where to start. Any suggestions?

Once again, thanks for taking the time to respond guys.

D.

[marvinbrown]

marvin - I have often thought of exploring Wagner but I'm afraid to say that I just don't know where to start. Any suggestions?

Once again, thanks for taking the time to respond guys.

D.

  I can safely say that all of Wagner's mature operas (the four operas of the Ring), Tristan und Isolde, Parsifal and Die Meistersinger are essential for any decent opera collection.  Tristan und Isolde is my favorite work, it is also a pivotal piece in the history of classical music  in that with the Tristan Chord Wagner propelled modernism further than any composer that came before him! The influence that Wagner's mature operas had on Mahler, Schoenberg, Debussy and Richard Strauss is immeasurable.

  I suppose you could try/sample one of the earlier operas (the Flying Dutchman, Lohengrin or Tannhauser) to get a taste of Wagner. But you must hear Tristan und Isolde and The Ring cycle at some point in the future...they are incredible. 

  Of all the 750+ CDs in my collection this is easily my favorite:

 


  Good Luck in your exploration.

  marvin

[Grazioso]

So my question is how did you direct your listening around the symphony genre? What was the method in your approach? Would be interested to know.

My approach has provided both structure and allowed me to indulge my love of seeking out the unfamiliar. I collect complete symphony cycles (I'm up to around 80 or 90 composers so far), often leaping about in what I buy and listen to based on reading, recommendations, and sheer curiosity. Yet, at the same time, I don't listen to music as background noise, but just sit and listen; even if I might move from an early Romantic to a 12-tone modernist to a Classicist in the span of a few days, I'm paying attention and mentally comparing and cataloging. I'm thinking about melodic phrasing and harmonic progression, about structure and instrumentation, about whether there's any sort of programmatic context, about how one composer handles the genre versus one of his contemporaries, and so forth.

Why the symphony in particular? Because it's one of classical music's most prestigious genres, tending to be grand in conception and serious in intent, occupying most all the great composers and countless lesser ones, and including many of music's greatest achievements. It also exemplifies most of the major shifts in musical taste and theory over the centuries. And I personally like large-scale pieces that tell a lengthy, dramatic story in sound yet still possess a clear structure, and symphonies tend to do that.

[Que]

I would explore pre-Romantic music: Classical but especially Baroque & Early Music.
You'll see that it will help to eleveate to some extent the burden of your depression as well.

Q

[Daedalus]

 Good Luck in your exploration.

 marvin

Thanks for the advice Marvin. It has been noted and placed on the list. 

My approach has provided both structure and allowed me to indulge my love of seeking out the unfamiliar. I collect complete symphony cycles (I'm up to around 80 or 90 composers so far), often leaping about in what I buy and listen to based on reading, recommendations, and sheer curiosity. Yet, at the same time, I don't listen to music as background noise, but just sit and listen;

Thanks for replying Grazioso.

I tend to do this as well, often doing lots of reading about the composer and the piece, and then devoting the rest of an evening to listening to the music.

Why the symphony in particular? Because it's one of classical music's most prestigious genres, tending to be grand in conception and serious in intent, occupying most all the great composers and countless lesser ones, and including many of music's greatest achievements. It also exemplifies most of the major shifts in musical taste and theory over the centuries. And I personally like large-scale pieces that tell a lengthy, dramatic story in sound yet still possess a clear structure, and symphonies tend to do that.

I also love the symphony and it is where I have conducted most of my classical music listening in the past. I actually already have the Steinberg book you recommend and find that it is a good companion when exploring new music within that genre.

I guess that this can be part of the problem in terms of forming a direction and structure to your listening habits. There is so much music out there to listen to that it can be overwhelming. I quite like the idea of focusing on the symphony and thus having direction but also moving out of my comfort zone quite often to experience the unfamiliar, as you put it. Good advice.

I would explore pre-Romantic music: Classical but especially Baroque & Early Music.
You'll see that it will help to eleveate to some extent the burden of your mental problems as well.

Q

Thanks for replying Que. Interesting that you say this as I have often found Classical and Baroque more difficult to appreciate. I think this has a lot to do with the way that I experience the music, which is mainly an aesthetic and emotional response for me. It is difficult to explain, but when listening to music, I tend to see images, colours or come to apprehend ideas and sensations in my mind. This happens more often with Romantic era music. That is to say that I find this music has a greater tendency to move me in this way. That is not to say that I don't find Classical or Baroque music to be pleasant and enjoyable. But I'm sure that this fault lies with me and that I am missing out on something somewhere along the line.

I was interested by this comment. Why do you think that pre-Romantic music in particular would help me in my current predicament?

D.

[ChamberNut]

Thanks for replying Que. Interesting that you say this as I have often found Classical and Baroque more difficult to appreciate. I think this has a lot to do with the way that I experience the music, which is mainly an aesthetic and emotional response for me. It is difficult to explain, but when listening to music, I tend to see images, colours or come to apprehend ideas and sensations in my mind. This happens more often with Romantic era music. That is to say that I find this music has a greater tendency to move me in this way. That is not to say that I don't find Classical or Baroque music to be pleasant and enjoyable. But I'm sure that this fault lies with me and that I am missing out on something somewhere along the line.

I was interested by this comment. Why do you think that pre-Romantic music in particular would help me in my current predicament?

D.

As much as I love Romantic era music (my favorite era), I wholeheartedly agreed with Que here.

[Daedalus]

As much as I love Romantic era music (my favorite era), I wholeheartedly agreed with Que here.

Why's that ChamberNut?

D.

[DavidRoss]

Bjorn--the absence of Bach's name from your list suggests the obvious "next place to go."  Not knowing Bach in music is like not knowing Newton in physics.  I suggest hastening to listen slowly and reflectively to his Sonatas & Partitas for solo violin, his Suites for solo cello, solo keyboard music starting with the Goldberg Variations, then to ensemble music like the beloved violin concertos and the Brandenburgs, and then to the cantatas and great choral works like the SMP.