Why doesn't Japan have a world class symphony orchestra?

[AB68]

There seem to be alot of world class musicians from Japan as European and American orchestras are full of them nowadays.
Why do they move out of the country to work?
I have been wondering why Japan doesn't have a world class orchestra with all the superb musicians coming from that country.
The Tokyo Symphony is a decent orchestra, but not in the same league as the best European and American orchestras.

[david johnson]

Saito Kinen Orchestra -
aren't these guys a pretty hot playing group?
i have some japan philharmonic lps that sound dang good.

dj

[The Six]

It's one of those Western things Japan just doesn't seem to be able to get the hang of.

[springrite]

The Japanese have no problem "getting the hang of" western classical music. If anything, western classical music is bigger in Japan than in, say, USA. But still, it is considered a "western" thing, in that "making it" means "making it" in the west, especially in Europe. I am not sure if this makes a good illustration but, some of the best sumo wrestlers in the world are from Mongolia, Hawaii, etc. But even if a market can be developed and the money is comparable, making it in sumo still means making it in Japan, period.

BTW, the same thing you noticed about Japan holds true in Korea and China as well. There must be close to a million people in Beijing who plays the piano or who are learning it. You can say that there are probably more pianists and piano music consumers in China than anywhere else. But none of them can hold a sellout concert unless they have made it in the west and came back for a concert or recital. Most orchestral muscians dream of going to the west and play there, even though most of them actually make more money here.

[Lethevich]

I don't think it is the fault of the musicians - they can pull off some really spectacular music. I think it is more to do with a) a conservative concert-going crowd, and b) conductors playing to those expectations (as they probably should). It might cause a little bit of a drab atmosphere, which might explain the occasional lack of spark...

[CRCulver]

While not a symphony orchestra, the Bach Collegium Japan is one of the greatest ensembles in the world.

[FideLeo]

While not a symphony orchestra, the Bach Collegium Japan is one of the greatest ensembles in the world.

Japan has produced some musicians who are next to none when it comes to playing western period instruments.  It used to be the case that BCJ needed to use contract woodwind and brass players from Europe, but now it seems to me that they can now cover all bases with local musicians. 

[imperfection]

NHK Symphony
Osaka Philharmonic
Saito Kinen Orchestra
Yomiuri Nippon Symphony Orchestra

and the excellent wind ensemble Tokyo Kosei Wind Orchestra

Need I say more?

[FideLeo]

Indeed Japan has some world-class symphony orchestra, perhaps uniquely so in East Asia.

[eyeresist]

It's hard to judge Japanese ensembles given we hear so little from them.

Did you know there is a Japanese Ring cycle conducted by Asahina?

[Josquin des Prez]

While China is busy popping out star after star Japan has produced some genuinely gifted musicians through out the years.

[springrite]

While China is busy popping out star after star Japan has produced some genuinely gifted musicians through out the years.

Well, even with LangLang and Yundi, not really that many "stars", compared to all the Japanese names I can think of. And hardly any of them true musicians. Japan has indeed been exceptional.

[Dundonnell]

NHK Symphony
Osaka Philharmonic
Saito Kinen Orchestra
Yomiuri Nippon Symphony Orchestra

and the excellent wind ensemble Tokyo Kosei Wind Orchestra

Need I say more?

Yes, that's a good list

And it is worth reflecting that many of these orchestras are able to attract fine conductors-both Japanese and from abroad- as their principal conductors:

NHK Symphony Orchestra:recently Charles Dutoit and then Vladimir Ashkenazy
Osaka Philharmonic Orchestra: Eiji Oue
Saito Kinen Orchestra-Seiji Ozawa
Yomiuri Nippon Symphony Orchestra: Stanislaw Skrowaczewski(to be replaced next year by Sylvain Cambreling)

[Bunny]

The problem is not that Japan has not produced a world class symphony orchestra as there clearly are world class orchestras in Japan. The problem is that the orchestras have not toured extensively in the West, and worse, their recordings are not widely distributed, and are extremely expensive here.     

[jochanaan]

Did you know there is a Japanese Ring cycle conducted by Asahina?

Dare I ask how much it costs? I'd definitely buy it if I had any extra spending money.  I've only heard an Asahina recording once, Bruckner 4 with the Osaka Phil, but that once was memorable--both the playing and the conducting were world class.

[Bunny]

Dare I ask how much it costs? I'd definitely buy it if I had any extra spending money.  I've only heard an Asahina recording once, Bruckner 4 with the Osaka Phil, but that once was memorable--both the playing and the conducting were world class.

lots and lots of dollars.

[greg]

Anyone listen to this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt-8kofyQhc

It's the NHK Symphony Orchestra. Sounds nice, doesn't it?

[Coopmv]

While China is busy popping out star after star Japan has produced some genuinely gifted musicians through out the years.

The size of the population does not always guarantee success in ANY fields.  Surely 1.3B+ people are a lot of people.  Will China ever beat Brazil in soccer or the US in basketball?  Highly unlikely.  With 10% of China's population, Japan is far more accomplished in science and classical music than China ...

[greg]

With 10% of China's population, Japan is far more accomplished in science and classical music than China ...

That's just another reason to love Japan!

I can't think of any really, really famous Japanese composer after Takemitsu, though. I don't know if there ever will be one, because many of the composers are 20th century avant-garde by-products, so the majority of the audience will find it hard to connect to their music, even if they are geniuses. Hopefully, that will change.

This may be hard to explain, but... I detect some kind of relationship between Japan and late 19th century Germany- I don't know if there really is a similarity or not, but I've had some observations.

Think- during the 19th century, there was the negative philosophy of Schopenhauer. Then there was Wagner, who was influenced by it, and Mahler, who wrote in the spirit of it (and I could imagine his brother doing the same if he hadn't commit suicide).

Then, I read (very little) Japanese literature, which is pretty dark, and it is written by writers who were completely miserable and commit suicide, after trying several time and going in and out of wondering whether it was even worth it to kill themselves. I've also watched the anime Welcome to the NHK, which is literally the most depressing show I've watched in my life (but enjoyingly, cleansingly depressing in a way that only listening to Mahler/Wagner or reading Schopenhauer can do for me). I've never seen so many suicide attempts, especially given that they are the main characters trying it. The whole message and struggle was a type of thought that I could hardly imagine in an American or British show, for example.

I'm just wondering if this type of thought is a by-product of what happens when a society gets many smart people, and becomes more advanced. Although Japan doesn't exactly have the highest suicide rate (they did make up the term hikikomori, which is pretty significant), it seems that the lowest suicide rates are among countries that are the least advanced. Just random wondering thoughts...

[eyeresist]

Dare I ask how much it costs?

Click the picture to find out! (The page has an English-language option)

It's ¥8,000, which is a bit under US$80.