Minor modes usage in composers

[schweitzeralan]

In an original posting I had asked The question if there were any composers who incorporated a particular modal sequence in their orchestral, instrumental, or any chamber work.  That is, did any composer prefer in a work the particular or predominant usage of, let's say, the Locrian or Melodic Minor over other harmonic possibilities.  After pondering the issue somewhat, and after having read a few of the responses to my original message, I decided to eliminate the posting, as I now realize there's not one composer who develops any particular mode in terms of any exclusivity.  I realized the mistake and simply pulled the plug and let it go. Personally I like the melodic minor for some reason, and I notice its prevailed usage in many of the works of Sibelius and by many composers influenced by him.

[Cato]

You find the terms "melodic minor" and "harmonic minor" in textbooks, with snippets from Bach or anybody else as an example.

In the end, composers worth their salt and pepper and even their allspice will do what they want: I cannot tell you of any composer "dominated" by the melodic minor.

Since most composers are men, it is typical for them to be dominated only by the minor and major melodies streaming from their wives!   0:)

[karlhenning]

Since most composers are men, it is typical for them to be dominated only by the minor and major melodies streaming from their wives!   0:)

I'll ask my Maria her thoughts on this proposal, esteemed Cato 

(I shan't use your name.)

[Cato]

I'll ask my Maria her thoughts on this proposal, esteemed Cato 

(I shan't use your name.)

Anonymous is responsible for many things musical, literary, and otherwise!   

[schweitzeralan]

You find the terms "melodic minor" and "harmonic minor" in textbooks, with snippets from Bach or anybody else as an example.

In the end, composers worth their salt and pepper and even their allspice will do what they want: I cannot tell you of any composer "dominated" by the melodic minor.

Since most composers are men, it is typical for them to be dominated only by the minor and major melodies streaming from their wives!   0:)

Thanks. I suppose responses like this will be more than  typical. I may have to nullify the posting.

[Cato]

Thanks. I suppose responses like this will be more than  typical. I may have to nullify the posting.

To be fair, Schweitzeralan, I am not sure exactly what you wanted: the best I could do was to state what I think is the truth, i.e. no composer that I know of made a "dominant" use of this scale in a majority of works.  I am sure you can find it from John Adams to Jan Zelenka.

See for example, the Bach Invention #4 in D minor.

[schweitzeralan]

To be fair, Schweitzeralan, I am not sure exactly what you wanted: the best I could do was to state what I think is the truth, i.e. no composer that I know of made a "dominant" use of this scale in a majority of works.  I am sure you can find it from John Adams to Jan Zelenka.

See for example, the Bach Invention #4 in D minor.

I realize this.  I know of one or more composers, most notably Sibelius who makes most use of it.  I'm removing the post. Appreciate the response.

[bwv 1080]

You cannot really say that any common practice composer favored one scale over another, they all used the major and minor scales (in all its forms).  A more fruitful discussion would be on the use of the old church modes by these composers and their resurgence in the 20th century, along with some more exotic scales like the whole tone or octatonic.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, you certainly can't discount the fact that the Romantic era produced a predominance of minor mode works. Way disproportionate to the Classical era. As a nearly random example, Vieuxtemps had 9 major works, 7 violin concertos and 2 cello concertos. 6 of those, 67%, are in the minor mode. Mozart produced 22 piano concertos, 2 of those are in the minor mode. And of his 41 numbered symphonies, you have only the 2 g minor ones (and a questionable early a minor and a d minor that was originally an opera overture).  Romantic composers were passionate about writing in the minor mode for symbolic reasons. They were trying to exploit the emotional reaction that we tend to have to minor mode music. So it isn't exactly an even distribution, but you also are hard put to pick a single composer rather than an era of composition.



PS - it's always possible that I don't have any idea where you're going with this, so I am OT...

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Listening to:
Zurich Tonhalle Orchestra / Baudo - Liszt Concerto #2 in A for Piano 3rd mvmt - Marziale, un poco meno allegro

[karlhenning]

Well, you certainly can't discount the fact that the Romantic era produced a predominance of minor mode works. Way disproportionate to the Classical era. As a nearly random example, Vieuxtemps had 9 major works, 7 violin concertos and 2 cello concertos. 6 of those, 67%, are in the minor mode. Mozart produced 22 piano concertos, 2 of those are in the minor mode. And of his 41 numbered symphonies, you have only the 2 g minor ones (and a questionable early a minor and a d minor that was originally an opera overture).  Romantic composers were passionate about writing in the minor mode for symbolic reasons. They were trying to exploit the emotional reaction that we tend to have to minor mode music. So it isn't exactly an even distribution, but you also are hard put to pick a single composer rather than an era of composition.



PS - it's always possible that I don't have any idea where you're going with this, so I am OT...

Whether it's OT, I cannot answer to;  but it is a most apt observation, Gurn  0:)

[snyprrr]

What about Pettersson? Didn't he saything like, "Everytime I've approached a triad, it was always a minor triad."?

Joseph Martin Kraus? The "minor key Mozart"?

Shostakovich???

Is there a difference here in using "mode" and "key"? D minor can be the "key" of D minor, or the "X" mode of the key of F major. Is "harmonic minor" a mode, or a scale (the one with the raised seventh, right?)? Haha, I'm not sure i want to get into this, he said sheepishly...

[schweitzeralan]

What about Pettersson? Didn't he saything like, "Everytime I've approached a triad, it was always a minor triad."?

Joseph Martin Kraus? The "minor key Mozart"?

Shostakovich???

Is there a difference here in using "mode" and "key"? D minor can be the "key" of D minor, or the "X" mode of the key of F major. Is "harmonic minor" a mode, or a scale (the one with the raised seventh, right?)? Haha, I'm not sure i want to get into this, he said sheepishly...

I though the major, minor locrian, etc. were modes.  I may be mistaken.  They are scales, but, in context, I'm not sure. I'll check on this. I'm certain there are many posters who studied music theory.

[owlice]

Nothing useful to contribute, just a kidtale: when tall child was a very small child of perhaps 5(and used to hearing me singing the alto line of Christmas carols), he asked me why Christmas songs were so often written in locrian mode.

Now he simply says, "Mom! Don't sing!!!"

Teenagers!

[schweitzeralan]

Nothing useful to contribute, just a kidtale: when tall child was a very small child of perhaps 5(and used to hearing me singing the alto line of Christmas carols), he asked me why Christmas songs were so often written in locrian mode.

Now he simply says, "Mom! Don't sing!!!"

Teenagers!

I wonder what songs they could have been.

[owlice]

He asked this as we were driving somewhere; I was singing (the alto line to) "In the Bleak Mid-Winter," which may have prompted his question. Or may not have! This incident stuck in my mind -- even remember which road we were on -- because I didn't know my then-small child had even heard of locrian mode. I thought it was an odd question for whatever his age was at the time. Not being into music theory, I didn't try to determine whether the music I was singing that holiday season approached locrian mode-ness; perhaps I should have!

[Gabriel]

I though the major, minor locrian, etc. were modes.  I may be mistaken.  They are scales, but, in context, I'm not sure. I'll check on this. I'm certain there are many posters who studied music theory.

Indeed, they are modes. Our "major" and "minor" (grosso modo) are just two of many possibilities (v. gr., locrian mode) of organizing the notes in a scale (even considering a seven-note structure, for it is evidently possible to form scales with more or less notes).

[schweitzeralan]

To be fair, Schweitzeralan, I am not sure exactly what you wanted: the best I could do was to state what I think is the truth, i.e. no composer that I know of made a "dominant" use of this scale in a majority of works.  I am sure you can find it from John Adams to Jan Zelenka.

See for example, the Bach Invention #4 in D minor.

Yes, "The Wound Dresser" is conceived and developed within the melodic minor chordal mode.

[greg]

Well, you certainly can't discount the fact that the Romantic era produced a predominance of minor mode works. Way disproportionate to the Classical era. As a nearly random example, Vieuxtemps had 9 major works, 7 violin concertos and 2 cello concertos. 6 of those, 67%, are in the minor mode. Mozart produced 22 piano concertos, 2 of those are in the minor mode. And of his 41 numbered symphonies, you have only the 2 g minor ones (and a questionable early a minor and a d minor that was originally an opera overture).  Romantic composers were passionate about writing in the minor mode for symbolic reasons. They were trying to exploit the emotional reaction that we tend to have to minor mode music. So it isn't exactly an even distribution, but you also are hard put to pick a single composer rather than an era of composition.



PS - it's always possible that I don't have any idea where you're going with this, so I am OT...

----------------
Listening to:
Zurich Tonhalle Orchestra / Baudo - Liszt Concerto #2 in A for Piano 3rd mvmt - Marziale, un poco meno allegro

What'd be fun would be to compare the percentage of major vs. minor key piano pieces by Haydn and Rachmaninoff. I bet they'd be pretty close to being inversely proportional.

[Gurn Blanston]

What'd be fun would be to compare the percentage of major vs. minor key piano pieces by Haydn and Rachmaninoff. I bet they'd be pretty close to being inversely proportional.

I wouldn't take the other end of that bet, Greg. I suspect you're right on.



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Listening to:
Paul Badura-Skoda - Op 010 #1 Sonata #5 in c for Fortepiano 1st mvmt - Allegro molto e con brio