Georg Philipp Telemann

Started by Harry, April 15, 2007, 10:55:37 AM

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DavidW

Quote from: Herman on July 20, 2023, 10:23:34 PMWhat I meant to say is that some pre-classical composers are not an ideal fit for the LP / CD era in that a lot of their music production was for amateur musicians, meqnt to be performed at home rather than passively listened to at home.
This is why Telemann first, in the Fifties and Sixties, was regarded as mere 'background' music.

I don't really know where this is coming from.  His major vocal works or his concertos were not scored for 1-2 people to play at home.  Telemann wrote some chamber music, but he is not really known for it.  And even for his chamber music, while you might have a couple of people performing, the rest of the family would be passively listening anyway. 

Telemann's music is written to be listened to, just like any other composer.

Mandryka

Quote from: DavidW on July 21, 2023, 06:44:57 AMTelemann's music is written to be listened to, just like any other composer.

I don't know anything about Telemann so I'm not going to get involved in that particular case, but really I don't see why it's right to assume that all music is designed (by the composer?) principally to be listened to rather than to be performed. Even putting aside improvisation frameworks like Stockhausen's Spiral.

Why should we assume that, for example, that Bach's canons BWV 1087 were intended to be listened to by anyone other than the person playing them?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Herman

It's no big deal, but as far as I know most of Bach's solo works (keyboard, violin, cello) were intended as Uebungen, exercizes, for the performer primarily.

Not as public performance pieces.

That's the way JSB's works survived. Performers played pieces from WTC at home, or excerpts from the Suites or Partitas.

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: Herman on July 21, 2023, 10:11:07 AMIt's no big deal, but as far as I know most of Bach's solo works (keyboard, violin, cello) were intended as Uebungen, exercizes, for the performer primarily.

Not as public performance pieces.

That's the way JSB's works survived. Performers played pieces from WTC at home, or excerpts from the Suites or Partitas.

The whole idea of public performance was pretty much a new thing in Bach's time. I remember reading somewhere that the first public concert hall in Europe was built in London sometime around 1680. Before that, music was for church, theater or home.

Still, "playing at home" can mean playing for an audience, at least if your home is big enough for that.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Opus131

#164
Quote from: Herman on July 20, 2023, 10:23:34 PMWhat I meant to say is that some pre-classical composers are not an ideal fit for the LP / CD era in that a lot of their music production was for amateur musicians, meqnt to be performed at home rather than passively listened to at home.
This is why Telemann first, in the Fifties and Sixties, was regarded as mere 'background' music.

I think it's more that this kind of music wasn't meant to endure.

One of my first thoughts when approaching Telemann was to ponder why he had to write so much music in the first place. While i'm sure he recycled his own works numerious times there's something to be said about the fact audiences back in those days likely never heard the same composition being performed more than a few times.

It seems to me audiences in his time valued freshness over something substantial enough to be able to withstand repeated listening. This doesn't fit with the way we listen to music today.

71 dB

#165
Quote from: Herman on July 20, 2023, 10:23:34 PMThis is why Telemann first, in the Fifties and Sixties, was regarded as mere 'background' music.

I don't care at all what Telemann was regarded in the Fifties and Sixties. I don't even care what his music is considered today! All I care about is what I think about Telemann myself.

What do I think? Telemann's music has its own charm and for mere 'background' music it is pretty damn great! That's what I think.
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Florestan

Quote from: Opus131 on July 23, 2023, 01:38:56 PMI think it's more that this kind of music wasn't meant to endure.

One of my first thoughts when approaching Telemann was to ponder why he had to write so much music in the first place. While i'm sure he recycled his own works numerious times there's something to be said about the fact audiences back in those days likely never heard the same composition being performed more than a few times.

It seems to me audiences in his time valued freshness over something substantial enough to be able to withstand repeated listening. This doesn't fit with the way we listen to music today.


This, in spades.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Florestan

Quote from: 71 dB on July 23, 2023, 11:51:17 PMTelemann's music has its own charm and for mere 'background' music it is pretty damn great!

And this, also in spades.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Opus131

If you listen to his works for a while it sort becomes obvious a lot of it was improvised, but at the same time it doesn't feel contrived or carelessly put toghether. I think Telemann was one of those composers that just had music popping into their head all the time. From a technical point of view most of his music is actually quite impeccable, whatever it's level of sophistication may have been, so i wouldn't exactly discount his talents as a musician, which must have been notable, even if his aims as an artist were not as high as some of his more famous contemporaries (Bach, Handel etc).

Best way for me to understand this music is to just see it as decorative, as a kind of embelliscement and call back to his age, kinda of like a beautiful pattern on a tapestry, or a decorative mosaic. This also means that no matter how much one would like to rehabilitate his name, his music will never be as significant to us as it was in his own time.