Author Topic: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)  (Read 29199 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

snyprrr

  • Guest
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2012, 08:54:43 AM »
Speaking of Dufourt, I really have to give Erewhon a listen. I tried his works based on Tiepolo's paintings on Africa and Asia a while back and they did nothing to me. Are you familiar with them?

No, but 'scarecrow''s Amazon review kept me away. I have been desperately trying to get a copy of the Accord disc of Saturn and Surgir. I would recommend the Timpani disc with Surgir and the viola concerto. btw- yes, by all means give Erewhon a spin.

Offline edward

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3747
  • Hello, little man. I will destroy you.
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2012, 09:09:27 AM »
"Almost speechless" is exactly how I have felt after hearing Grisey - probably most recently when Alan Gilbert and the New York Philharmonic did his last work, Quatre chants pour franchir le seuil, for soprano and fifteen instruments (1997–98). Was so knocked out that I returned for the second performance the next night, knowing I might not hear it again live for a very long time.
The Kairos recording isn't the last word on this work, but it's a must-have for me. I wasn't big on what I'd heard of Grisey before then, but the world premiere under George Benjamin was one of the most revelatory things I've ever heard--the best description I've come up with for the work and its stature is to call it a spectralist Das Lied von der Erde.

Grisey's output was not particularly large, so most of his mature work has appeared on disc now: as well as the other recommendations I'd suggest Le temps et l'Ecume (found on a Kairos disc with Les chants d'amour) and L'Icone paradoxale, on a hard-to-find and oddly programmed Hanssler Classic disc.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
 -- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Offline Brewski

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 12296
  • "Man With No Shadow" by Makoto Tojiki (2009)
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2012, 09:25:23 AM »
The Kairos recording isn't the last word on this work, but it's a must-have for me. I wasn't big on what I'd heard of Grisey before then, but the world premiere under George Benjamin was one of the most revelatory things I've ever heard--the best description I've come up with for the work and its stature is to call it a spectralist Das Lied von der Erde.


Still haven't heard it!  :-[ (I got the recording shortly after the concerts, but didn't want to hear another version for awhile...but enough time has passed, so I should really give it a spin.)

But more importantly, "...a spectralist Das Lied von der Erde" - that is positively gorgeous, edward, and right on target.

--Bruce
"Do you realize that we're meteorites; almost as soon as we're born, we have to disappear?"

~Iannis Xenakis

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

Offline Rinaldo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1788
  • Cara sposa, dove sei?
    • aaraaf.net
  • Location: Prague
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2012, 03:25:16 PM »
(thanks for the suggestions, everyone.. I've calmed down a little bit but now I'm gonna crank up the Vortex again.. oh, the idea of hearing this stuff live!)

Offline edward

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3747
  • Hello, little man. I will destroy you.
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2012, 05:01:49 PM »
I thought I'd posted this link before, but apparently not--a highly interesting interview with Grisey from a couple of years before his death:

http://www.angelfire.com/music2/davidbundler/grisey.html

To me his comments on Beethoven and Feldman are particularly revealing: so much of the psychological effectiveness of his late works comes from the characteristics he identifies in those two composers.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
 -- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Offline milk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3206
  • Location: usa
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #65 on: April 29, 2014, 09:06:47 PM »
I just listened to the first few parts of two pieces: Acoustic Spaces and Four Songs. I'm really loving this music so far. BTW, How is his name pronounced?

Offline 7/4

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 310
  • Location: other
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2014, 03:24:06 AM »
Quote
Spectralism is not a system.

It's about texture, not harmony or melody.

Offline North Star

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 17440
  • Location: Oulu, Finland
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2014, 03:45:43 AM »
I just listened to the first few parts of two pieces: Acoustic Spaces and Four Songs. I'm really loving this music so far. BTW, How is his name pronounced?
[ɡʁizɛ]

I need to listen to more Grisay, too. I've heard those two before, and recall liking them.
I see he didn't mention Scelsi - I was under the impression that he was rather influential to the Spectralists, too..
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Offline edward

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3747
  • Hello, little man. I will destroy you.
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2014, 04:37:06 AM »
[ɡʁizɛ]

I need to listen to more Grisay, too. I've heard those two before, and recall liking them.
I see he didn't mention Scelsi - I was under the impression that he was rather influential to the Spectralists, too..
The spectralist movement was well-established before Scelsi was widely known, so one might regard it more as a matter of convergent evolution. Post-spectralists like Georg Friedrich Haas (I've not actually seen the term used, but it seems a logical one) might regard Scelsi as more directly important, though.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
 -- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Offline Mr Bloom

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 106
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2014, 05:41:24 AM »
The spectralist movement was well-established before Scelsi was widely known, so one might regard it more as a matter of convergent evolution.
Actually no, Tristan Murail met Scelsi and discovered his music when he was at the Villa Médicis in Rome at the beginning of the 70's, and Grisey knew his music as well. Scelsi's music was a direct influence to spectral music, and was one of its sources.

Offline milk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3206
  • Location: usa
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #70 on: June 13, 2014, 02:50:03 AM »

I quite enjoyed this today. After being inspired recently by Feldman and Cage and Riley I've been having a little trouble find more musical "wow" moments. But I quite like Grisey. I also want to listen again to Acoustic Spaces. Those are the only two I have. 

Offline EigenUser

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3328
  • Mahler's 9th - "Deadlifts in the midst of life"
    • Ligeti's Laboratory
  • Location: Northern VA
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bartok, Ligeti, Ravel, Gershwin, Debussy, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Feldman, Messiaen, Haydn, Ockeghem, Adès, Mahler, Ohana, Webern, Boulez, Varese, Beethoven, Berg, Scriabin, Tippett, Takemitsu, Vaughan-Williams
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #71 on: June 13, 2014, 02:58:28 AM »

I quite enjoyed this today. After being inspired recently by Feldman and Cage and Riley I've been having a little trouble find more musical "wow" moments. But I quite like Grisey. I also want to listen again to Acoustic Spaces. Those are the only two I have.
I actually enjoyed this, too, which surprised me since I don't usually like songs. Hopefully I'm warming up to songs. It's nice to have more to listen to.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline milk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3206
  • Location: usa
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #72 on: June 13, 2014, 04:21:15 AM »
I actually enjoyed this, too, which surprised me since I don't usually like songs. Hopefully I'm warming up to songs. It's nice to have more to listen to.
Sometimes I also have a hard time with songs. I really don't like opera-style singing, which is the reason I didn't like Stephen Scott's Paisajes Audibles. I'm open to solo voices depending on how they are done. But I like how Grisey treats voice as...as part of timbre? As sound? I don't know if I'm articulating this well. Anyway, I have to read through more of these posts but I am interested in what people really love in Grisey's output.

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14465
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #73 on: August 07, 2014, 04:20:25 AM »


I have an amateur transfer of this LP, which I'll put on symphonyshare - if anyone wants it directly they can PM me.

Partiels is played by Ensemble Ars Nove and Boris de Vinogradov, who created the music. The performance is taut, transparent and angular  and you can hear all the interesting textures clearly, all the dissonances and microtones. It's a shame there's no more of Espaces Acoustiques by them on recording.

One recording of Les Espaces Acoustiques that didn't suit me was Asbury's - which seemed sweet and overblown. But this one by Vinogradov shows  that Grisey really was a genius.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline milk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3206
  • Location: usa
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #74 on: August 07, 2014, 05:24:51 AM »


I have an amateur transfer of this LP, which I'll put on symphonyshare - if anyone wants it directly they can PM me.

Partiels is played by Ensemble Ars Nove and Boris de Vinogradov, who created the music. The performance is taut, transparent and angular  and you can hear all the interesting textures clearly, all the dissonances and microtones. It's a shame there's no more of Espaces Acoustiques by them on recording.

One recording of Les Espaces Acoustiques that didn't suit me was Asbury's - which seemed sweet and overblown. But this one by Vinogradov shows  that Grisey really was a genius.

I jave the knox/Asko Ensemble which I like but have nothing to compare to. Listening to and loving Xenakis recently I feel their music is comparable.   

Offline Brewski

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 12296
  • "Man With No Shadow" by Makoto Tojiki (2009)
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #75 on: August 07, 2014, 05:45:54 AM »
I just listened to the first few parts of two pieces: Acoustic Spaces and Four Songs. I'm really loving this music so far. BTW, How is his name pronounced?

Those are two of his best works: the former is one of the quintessentially spectral works (perhaps even Grisey's "artist statement") and the latter is his final piece, gazing into the beyond. (I find his choice of texts for Quatre chants especially compelling.)

And everyone I know who performs his music says "Gri-SAY." After hearing a good bit of his output - not everything - I think he was one of the most influential composers of the late 20th century. Great that you have discovered him.

--Bruce
"Do you realize that we're meteorites; almost as soon as we're born, we have to disappear?"

~Iannis Xenakis

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14465
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #76 on: August 07, 2014, 10:20:40 AM »
I jave the knox/Asko Ensemble which I like but have nothing to compare to. Listening to and loving Xenakis recently I feel their music is comparable.

Yes well you have the Espaces Acousiques I didn't enjoy so much, I'm afraid. Take this LP and see what you think. The EA recording I listen to the most is Cambreling's. You say GreeeZay, I think.

Nice interview here about composing with the universe, about plugging music into something bigger.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/aTlCXvag0EE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/aTlCXvag0EE</a>
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 10:47:35 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Rinaldo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1788
  • Cara sposa, dove sei?
    • aaraaf.net
  • Location: Prague
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #77 on: August 08, 2014, 12:20:11 AM »
Nice interview here about composing with the universe, about plugging music into something bigger.

My French is very basic so I caught only bits but I love Grisey's connection with cosmology, have to look that up.

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14465
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #78 on: August 08, 2014, 03:02:28 AM »
My French is very basic so I caught only bits but I love Grisey's connection with cosmology, have to look that up.

Well it's a pretty shallow journalistic interview so he doesn't say much more than that he wanted to plug into something bigger than music. The piece lasts over an hour,there was a light show to go with it and the drummers were broadcast through speakers which surrounded the audience. There are snippets on youtube. There was a CD which has disappeared, but you can hear it here

http://classical-music-online.net/en/production/41564

I like to hear it partly because I'm interested in GG's ideas about time, about how music can manage perceived time.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 03:04:46 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Joaquimhock

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 82
    • My artistic website
  • Location: Belgium
  • Currently Listening to:
    Kurtag - Ropartz - Enescu - Tournemire
Re: Gérard Grisey (1946-1998)
« Reply #79 on: August 08, 2014, 06:48:58 AM »
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 06:50:39 AM by Joaquimhock »
"Dans la vie il faut regarder par la fenêtre"