Author Topic: The Early Music Club (EMC)  (Read 288132 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13403
Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #1440 on: January 18, 2020, 10:26:57 PM »
What changed in the world of Machaut interpretation with Parrot? Do you think his recording of, say, the Notre Dame Mass, still holds up?

From a performance point of view, Parrott was one of the first to experiment with an assertive rather than a meek  a capella singing style from men only, one of the first to use a small ensemble of singers, one of the first focus on mid and lower registers, and one of the first to relish the harmonies in the score rather than write them out. He also decided to present the music Machaut wrote in the context of a whole mass, with chanted stuff.

I can’t say whether his ideas still hold up, I’m just not in touch with current research. Obviously I can’t say whether anyone will like his recording. But I can say that it’s a landmark experiment in the music’s reception history.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 10:30:32 PM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline San Antone

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7751
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bach Brahms Beethoven Machaut Stravinsky Schumann Feldman Debussy Carter Bernstein
Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #1441 on: January 19, 2020, 01:25:13 AM »
What changed in the world of Machaut interpretation with Parrot? Do you think his recording of, say, the Notre Dame Mass, still holds up?

Parrott's recording of the Messe is among the best, IMO, and still holds up.  There have been others in his wake, Mary Berry and Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Dominique Vellard), e.g., that use a similar approach which are also very good.

His male vocal group is smaller, his conservative treatment of accidentals (musica ficta) and pitch (low) are correct, IMO, and he places the polyphonic sections of the Mass within the proper liturgical setting, with all the chants of the Proper.  And above all he does not use any instruments.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 02:14:18 AM by San Antone »

Online vers la flamme

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 846
  • Location: Atlanta
Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #1442 on: January 19, 2020, 05:50:06 AM »
Good stuff, thanks, boys. I'll be checking it out in short order. After posting that last night I went and listened to some of Parrott's Monteverdi Vespers. Very good stuff. I think I'll have to get on that one too. Is Parrott a worthy interpreter of Monteverdi, in your eyes, or is he too backward-looking to pull off this forward-thinking music?

Offline Traverso

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1552
  • Location: The Netherlands
Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #1443 on: January 19, 2020, 06:18:37 AM »
Good stuff, thanks, boys. I'll be checking it out in short order. After posting that last night I went and listened to some of Parrott's Monteverdi Vespers. Very good stuff. I think I'll have to get on that one too. Is Parrott a worthy interpreter of Monteverdi, in your eyes, or is he too backward-looking to pull off this forward-thinking music?

Parrott is nothing less than great in Monteverdi,The Vesper, Selva morale e spirituale  and not to forget his excellent Orfeo

Offline San Antone

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7751
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bach Brahms Beethoven Machaut Stravinsky Schumann Feldman Debussy Carter Bernstein
Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #1444 on: January 19, 2020, 06:57:46 AM »
Good stuff, thanks, boys. I'll be checking it out in short order. After posting that last night I went and listened to some of Parrott's Monteverdi Vespers. Very good stuff. I think I'll have to get on that one too. Is Parrott a worthy interpreter of Monteverdi, in your eyes, or is he too backward-looking to pull off this forward-thinking music?

Andrew Parrott wrote a game-changing paper concerning the pitch level of Monteverdi Vespers, and his subsequent recording is mandatory, IMO, for anyone interested in this music.

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13403
Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #1445 on: January 19, 2020, 08:08:12 AM »
Good stuff, thanks, boys. I'll be checking it out in short order.

It’s on YouTube, so you can see what you make of the interpretation yourself before making an investment. This is a piece of music which has been received a lot of different approaches on record.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/RDovcUQ8Kgk" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://youtube.com/v/RDovcUQ8Kgk</a>

I’m afraid I haven’t heard his Monteverdi.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 08:14:36 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline deprofundis

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 299
  • Location: montreal canada
  • Currently Listening to:
    classical, skronk-jazz, blues, experimental etc
Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #1446 on: January 19, 2020, 08:37:10 AM »
I have the Andrew Parrot of Gesualdo, it's average but not bad.

Dear ZamyraByrd how about madrigals, I'm listening Fruhe Italiensche Madrigale by capella antiqua Munchen directed by Konrad Ruhland, we have big name of Franco-Flemish here De Rore, Arcadelt ,verdelot, 2lp Box-set , have you heard this Mandryka, anyone?

Sounds goods but I don't know, it did not had the impact I wish on me perhaps, I'm too harsh in my judgement, did not heard it enough already.

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 13403
Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #1447 on: January 19, 2020, 01:57:36 PM »
I’ve heard his Gesualdo, but I’ve never thought about it apart from this: it’s good to break up the motets with some chanting, an unbroken sequence of responsoria motets is too rich for me.

In the music Machaut composed for the mass, the interesting thing for me is that Parrott gets the singers to sing straight, sing fast, and sing without much inflection. There are consequences for the “atmosphere” he creates, and presumably the performance is a reflection of ideas he has about what a medieval mass “felt like.” Or maybe he’s identifying the music with the score.

This is an aspect of the performance which may or may not stand up to scrutiny in the light of what’s known today about medieval singing. I don’t know. Some people followed him, but many more recent interpretations - Vellard, Vienna Vocal Consort, Capella Tetsuro Hanai, Emmanuel Bonnardot,  Lucien Kandell, Ensemble Organum, Graindelavoix - have not followed him in this. They’re more soulful.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 09:40:52 PM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline San Antone

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7751
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bach Brahms Beethoven Machaut Stravinsky Schumann Feldman Debussy Carter Bernstein
Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #1448 on: January 19, 2020, 02:42:27 PM »
I’ve heard his Gesualdo, but I’ve never thought about it apart from this: it’s good to break up the motets with some chanting, an unbroken sequence of responsoria motets is too rich for me.

In the music Machaut composed for the mass, the interesting thing for me is that Parrott gets the singers to sing straight, sing fast, and sing without much inflection. There are consequences for the “atmosphere” he creates, and presumably the performance is a reflection of ideas he has about what a medieval mass “felt like.” Or maybe he’s identifying the music with the score.

This is an aspect of the performance which may or may not stand up to scrutiny in the light of what’s known today about medieval singing. I don’t know. Some people followed him, but many more recent interpretations - Vellard, Vienna Vocal Consort, Capella Tetsuro Hanai, Lucien Kandell, Ensemble Organum, Graindelavoix - have not followed him in this. They’re more soulful.

First, I don't share your characterization of the singing of Parrott's group. 

Next, we don't know more today about Medieval singing than we did when Andrew Parrott made his recording of the Machaut Messe.  The professional scholarship post-Parrott has focused mostly on the context for the mass's composition, treatment of accidentals and size of the vocal ensemble.  However, some musicians such as Manuel Peres and Bjorn Schmelzer have concocted some imaginative theories for their somewhat radical performance of Machaut and other examples of Medieval music.  As for melismatic ornamentation, there is little to base their performance practices on other than speculation.

That said, I do find the recordings by Peres and Schmelzer entertaining, even though the arguments they deploy for their approach, as beautiful as it may sound, remain unconvincing.  Kandel is less interesting, and the other groups you mention I probably have heard but don't remember anything about their recordings.  I would not place Dominique Vellard along with Peres and Schmelzer in this regard. His recording of the Messe is closer to Parrott's than either Peres or Schmelzer.


We've debated these issues to death in the past. 

 8)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 06:45:49 PM by San Antone »

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 16935
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #1449 on: February 02, 2020, 01:38:35 AM »
Following up on our discussion on the WAYLT thread:



Interesting comparative review by Todd McComb from Medieval.org:
http://www.medieval.org/music/early/cdc/frb9373.html

Q

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 16935
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #1450 on: February 02, 2020, 01:48:13 AM »
Oh, and anyone interested in Franco-Flemish polyphony should have a look at this shortlist:
http://www.medieval.org/music/early/polyphony.html

Q

Offline deprofundis

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 299
  • Location: montreal canada
  • Currently Listening to:
    classical, skronk-jazz, blues, experimental etc
Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
« Reply #1451 on: February 03, 2020, 08:13:10 PM »
Dear folks of EMC good news for you guys, Marcel Pérès masterpiece of masterpiece have been finally re-issue for our divine pleasure ''Le Graduel d'Aliénor de Bretagne''.

WOW what a news I did not knew this it happen in October 2019, i really love this recording, very sunny & soulful very good, what else can I say it's Marcel best album ever. And I heard them all so far, who want to debated if he done better so far, this is tremendously triumphant, this is it, on a desert Island, imagine I'm alone or you are in a scenario like the Brilliant movie LOST whit Tom Hanks, you want this album, by all god mean, this is so ethereal & 
outstanding,you won't feel alone even if alone...

Perfect album of ancient lore  of of the best, I stamp my approval, If you love ancient music , you will love this just as much as I do, I stamped this other worldly moving, this album will have many spin in you're CD player I swear to god, heck do you want me to lie, a must, true love at first sight, this album gorgeous, splendid music.

Offline deprofundis

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 299
  • Location: montreal canada
  • Currently Listening to:
    classical, skronk-jazz, blues, experimental etc
Mandatory ensemble Choir of the Church for the advent on Arisis Label
« Reply #1452 on: February 15, 2020, 06:58:41 PM »
Choir  of church for the advent is prodigious,I really like this ensemble, really do, the voice are warm and fluid sung whit devotion, in other  words, they are real darn good professional, needless to says I own ever record they put out, there dazzling fabulous.

Seek them all like I did and tell me what you think:
H.Praetorius
F.Geurrero
P.de manchicourt vol 1-2
T.Crécquillon vol 1-2
J.Clémens non Papa
G.Dufay

You love renaissance, what are you waiting for, you're missing on  such a skillful & talented ensemble, I love this ensemble so much, it's screaming out awesome all over.

What do you think of them, do you like em, tell me, I think there fantastic, tremendously out of this world great(this is a small word for such an ensemble).
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 06:16:06 AM by deprofundis »