People obsessed by categories: "Soundtracks are not classical music!!!"

Started by W.A. Mozart, February 24, 2024, 03:19:20 AM

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Luke

Quote from: Maestro267 on Today at 06:50:38 AMCan we just get the people who clearly want to engage this individual in his trolling to argue till the cows come home via DM instead? Someone break forum rules so we can kill this thread for goddamn once!

Why the hate? Just ignore it. Personally a) I don't agree with killing threads just because we don't like them, and b) I don't think this is an offensive thread at all.

To be honest I'm not even quite sure what WAM is on about, because I can only skim those long long posts, and only react to little snippets that catch my eye. But from what I can work out it's about micro-classification, and that's not an issue that I'm very interested in, either. I think some film scores are incredible, and their relationship with classical music can be very interesting (look at the Tristan subtext in Vertigo's score, for example - it enriches the film massively). How we classify them seems less important - it is clearly a mixed genre, which can combine elements of [any musical style you can think of] with the exigencies of its role in support the film's action. I'm happy to leave it at that.


Karl Henning

Quote from: Luke on Today at 07:59:24 AMBut from what I can work out it's about micro-classification, and that's not an issue that I'm very interested in, either.
No, the obsession is all on his end.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

71 dB

Quote from: Maestro267 on Today at 06:50:38 AMSomeone break forum rules so we can kill this thread for goddamn once!

All we have to do is turn this into politics and religion...
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

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W.A. Mozart

Quote from: Crudblud on March 27, 2024, 01:10:46 AMIt seems that the compositional logic of film scores is very much determined by external rather than internal factors. The beats that are hit in scoring e.g.: an action sequence are only justified by reference to that action sequence, not to any musical necessity or impetus.




Your post might be meaningful in a discussion which asks the difference between composing music for a soundtrack and composing music for the concert hall.

In the specific case of classical music, you might explain how a composer of classical music has to change his approach to composition when he has to write music for a soundtrack and not for the concert hall.

What you clearily don't realise, however, is that your post is relevant when it comes to explain the difference between classical music for the concert hall and classical music for a soundtrack (the category "classical soundtrack"), but not for demonstrating that the category "classical soundtrack" doesn't exist.
You only explained the difference between two subcategories of classical music, and not the one between classical music and other genres of music.



Note that your observations can be applied to jazz composers too: isn't a jazz composition for a film score subservient to external factors?

For example, Dave Grusin is a jazz composer who has worked on the score of many films. I want that you all tell me that his music composed for the film "The Faboulous Baker Boys" is not jazz.




If you think (like me) that this piece can be classified as jazz, then you have to explain me why the differences between composing soundtracks and composing music for the concert hall is relevant only when it comes to classical music but it's not relevant in all other musical forms (like for example jazz).

Many people in the world of classical music seem to think that classical music is a special thing in respect to all other musical forms and that therefore we must apply a special and twisted logic for it.



In the context of similar discussions I've read the encyclopedic definitions of "classical music" many times.
The definition given are really vague, but no one of them specify that a classical-style composition can not be considered classical music if it's composed for a film score.


If you go to a store of chairs and you tell the customer service that chairs with less than four legs, according to your completely arbitrary definition, are not real chairs and that therefore the models they sell are frauds, they might think that you need the help of a doctor.


Saying that Classic FM is a fraud because it promotes determined soundtracks as classical music (it's basically what the article of the blog of theguardian says) because according to his COMPLETELY ARBITRARY definition of classical music, a classical composition can not be subservient to external elements, it's a similar thing.
And this is what I mean when I speak about "obsessions for categories": the practice of inventing 100'000 restrictive parameters for a determined category instead of accepting the generic nature of human categories.


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Maestro267